Home heating automation

Electric Ireland no longer offer the Nest, just the climote

That would be the case if the timer interrupts the permanent live supply to the boiler. I do notice an extra grey wire connected to the live in on the Flash timer, I'm curious if this is connected to the boiler to give it's controller permanent power. It depends on the complexity of the controller, but generally switched live going off would at first just remove power to the oil valve, with the motor running on for a short time to eliminate residual flue gasses. Some controllers might also overrun the their internal circulation pump live out in order to cool the water jacket. The burner used in the firebird outdoor does not have any display panels, whereas their indoor version of the C26 does, so jacket max temperature setting is permanently displayed, and error codes etc.can be read off. I have a C26 indoor myself, I can't remember when I installed it if the circulation pump output was just a straight jumper to the SL in, but I wired it with a permanent live and a SL for proper operation, I would expect the outdoor one to be similar.

Having said that, its probably not critical, the entire device is outdoors, so there's no risk of flue gases indoors, and the internal limit thermostat would be wired to cycle the boiler correctly by cutting the oil in advance of the fan, while the pump would also keep running. Check where that gray wire is going. In the end, your stat or it's receiver is just required to connect to the live in and SL out currently wired to the Flash, the brown wires. You can leave the Flash in situ, just run a short pair to the stat/receiver of your choice, plus a L N pair for power if your stat receiver has mains power.

@deezell I didn't get the keys yet but found out there's no thermostat, got the following from the current owner.

"The boiler controller has 3 channels i.e.

  - hot water

  - heating zone 1

  - heating zone 2

I think the the 3 bedrooms,bathroom and front living room are in zone 2, but just turn on one zone at a time to find out.

The radiators have individual thermostatic valves TRVs."

So a wireless tado system would be the way forward I'd assume? But the issue would be the hot water then, as I'm guessing a wireless tado system connects directly to the water? So i'd either have to join both zones up on the one wire, and control with the TRV's and use the other tado for hot water?

Or get the honewell evohome, which although more expensive has cheaper TRV's. Thermostat, boiler relay and 2 radiator heads for £279.

Either way I'm thinking I'll need an electrician, I can wire a plug but that's about it!

I have a unvented cylinder heating system with 2 zones for the rads.

I have 2 wall Thermostats for the rads and can either have the rad zones off or on with a switch. When the both zones are off and the boiler is on the, wayer diverts to the hot water tank coil I cant stop the water from heating the tank as there is no mortizesd valve and thermostate fiited to it. I was told by the plumber who fitted the system that I can't have a thermostate for the tank as the water has to loop around the system. If the 2 zones vavle were closed and if there also was closed valve on the cylinder and the boiler was running it would not be good.

Is this correct or is that bullshit as I want to fit a new app controlled 3 zone programmer and thermostate along with fitting a cylinder thermostate.

Thanks for some more great advice, nice to have a plan! I'll keep an eye on Drayton prices but won't purchase anything till I move in and confirm boiler model and compatbility. Better value all right, and even though you mentioned previously I forgot about it!

I'm making a list of things for an electrician to make the visit efficient, I've purchased a wired ring doorbell and the transformer needed for that so can get these two done at the one visit.

Again, it's simpler than you think. You'll just need to physically replace the H37XL with the wiser 3 channel controller WT734R. In an ideal world the baseplates would be identical and the wiring schematic the same, but there are differences in the base plates and the scheme. The Horstman base plate from the left has an Earth parking terminal first, then N, L, CH1 ON, OFF, CH2 ON, OFF, HW ON, OFF.

The wiser baseplate has no earth terminal, and no OFF terminals. From the left its N, L, CH1 ON, HW ON, CH2 ON, and a spare terminal which can be used to park Earth wires. Assuming your system has three valves, one for each zone, then there will be three wires only to the ON terminals on the H37XL. These power the valves, which in turn trigger the boiler, so you don't need to go near it. Heres the schematics.

Horstmann

WISER.

When you get a chance, lift the H37XL off its base plate, usually a single bottom screw to loosen, then it hinges up and off. Take a snap of the current wiring and post it, and also a snap of the terminal side of the controller, These controllers can have a gravity mode link, so you'd need to be certain your HW is valve controlled and the HW switch is not in the gravity mode setting. (gravity mode is where HW always heats for any of the three timers, not just the HW timer, and only the CH zones have valves). If you see 3 motorised valves in the plumbing, then you can be certain you have three independent zones and not gravity HW.

Congrats on your new home BTW, not easy to negotiate in the middle of a pandemic. I had two sons move into new builds last year in Feb and May, no joke with all the restrictions, builders only barely on site,etc so I know what the feeling is like.

Ben Dunne done an extension for Michael Lowry in Tipp, but I don't think it was a Tado !

Any decent sparks should be able to follow the Timer to Tado ext kit wiring. Both have mains in, and then it's just a switched Live out from the extension kit relay(s) to connect to the timer outs, one for CH and one for HW. All the other stuff with the app and the wall stat is DIY, no wiring involved other than plugging in the Internet bridge to the router with a short network cable and a phone style mains power adaptor.

Thanks! What i might do is print out the diagrams and accidently leave them at the printer so the electrical engineer in work who offered to help me move stuff will see it, question what it's for and hopefully offer to help! It doesn't seem too bad but would be easier for somebody with experience! Yeah we were very lucky as the owner wanted a quick sale so said if he got asking he'd out a new roof on the garage and a new garage door so we just offered it there and then and got the keys 2 months and a day later :-) Thanks again for all your tips and advice, really appreciated.

Switch to Energia for free Netatmo, or Bord Gais for free Hive. If your original Netatmo was a freebie, you may have exhausted your smart controls grant entitlement, which is a bit of a scam by some energy suppliers who are sticking in cheap single zone stats and pulling back multiples of its cost in the pretence that they've made your home heating more efficient. If you have to pay, Drayton Wiser single zone is good value, at €169 in Screwfix, Hive or Tado wireless starter about €199, but Currys have the Tado wireless starter for only €149, a bargain

https://www.currys.ie/ieen/smart-tech/smart-tech/smart-home/smart-heating/tado-wireless-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-v3-10217342-pdt.html?

EPH wireless is a just a basic stat with wireless and app, no smarts. A replacement Netatmo kit about €189, less if you could just buy the stat and pair it to your existing receiver, but I haven't seen it listed as an add on, unlike wiser, tado etc.

Heatmiser Neokit 1 single zone is a decent system, about €225, all the schedules can done via the stat display, its a bit fussy though.

Climote and Hub controller are often touted on Energy switching offers, but are very limited products, no Google integration, no smart features either, despite the wondrous clairvoyant powers claimed by the latter.

Get the Tado while still on Deal in Currys, it even has a HW relay if you ever want to control HW only by app. It's a steal at that price.

2 kw is well within the range of a 13a socket, which nominally can manage a pure resistive load of close to 3Kw, i.e, 13A by 230V is 2.99Kw. No reason you couldn't have a 2kw panel on a plug and socket, but a panel heater is designed for wall fixing, so its not going anywhere, and a spur box is ideal for a neat interference free fitting, no danger of a partly withdrawn plug to cause overheating of the plug and socket. If the spur box has space inside, you could fit a SonOff relay internally, rather than a cumbersome socket, smart plug-in socket and three pin plug. Alternatively get a smart wall socket like this, only about €14.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BSEED-Socket-Compatible-Alexa-Google/dp/B07PPBFRMT/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=BE1AS6M0BA8C&keywords=smart+single+wall+socket&qid=1643150939&sprefix=smart+single+wall%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-5#

A smart wall spur outlet is not a common item, quite expensive, about €50

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switch-Controller-Electric-Radiators-Timeswitch/dp/B0937JQDT6/ref=asc_df_B0937JQDT6/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=501097570217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=674310814189886431&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=20481&hvtargid=pla-1321914321796&psc=1

It would be on the back. Its unlikely to be stronger than 2kw. The largest I see in Screwfix is 2kw, 0.84m wide. 0.44m hight or 34" by 18"

Google Nest E €115 (€99+postage) delivered to Ireland from French retailer FNAC/Darty:

https://www.fnac.com/Google-Nest-Thermostat-E/a12896556/w-4

You can install any of the above plus Hive, Netatmo, to have remote setting of each individual TRV, while leaving the climote to control the general zones on and off. TRV's will limit a room's upper temperature, but rooms will only heat when the climote turns on the general zone. This may be all you need, and is akin to having mechanical TRV valves on the rads, which act passively in capping a room temperature.

To have the TRV's actively turn on a zone requires the addition of a relay or controller for each if the CH zones, which will turn on the zone when any of the TRVs in the zone call for heat. For the simplest conversion, the Drayton wiser kit3 controller is a 3 zone controller that will directly replace your current climote combined controller and stat, giving you two wireless wall stats for the two CH zones, timing of the HW zone, and the ability to add TRVs which will remotely turn on the zone heating they are located in when they are set to heat a room.

You don't say if your second CH zone has a wireless Climote temperature sensor or a wired wall stat to control its zone temperature. Also, do you have the climote remote HW sensor and controller, or do you just have time control of HW. It has always been difficult to find reference to climote devices for the additional zones, I suspect most Climote installations are single zone CH temperature control, with timed control of HW. Either way, the climote does not do a user operated thermostat physically located in CH 2 zone. You may have a manual wall stat in this zone, you may have the climote remote wireless temperature sensor, or you may just have timed control of the zone.

If you decide to discard the Climote controller (and the subscription), and install multiple TRVs, the installation can revert to a single zone for CH, as virtually all rooms will have individual TRV control, so there will not be a need to close the individual zone CH valves separately if their respective TRV valves control the heating for individual rooms.

You may just want to install a select few TRVs, in which case it is better to retain the general individual CH zone control, I.e. upstairs and downstairs, and just have a few TRVs for finer control within each zone. Typically, unused or empty bedrooms can be off with their own TRV while the landing, bathroom and upstairs office are heated by the general zone stat control. Living room, Dining room downstairs can be off with their own TRVs, while the hall, Kitchen, utilty, jax, etc will be heated during the day if the house is occupied. You may not need more than a couple of TRVs to get the level of control you need.

On a final note, if your radiators do not already have manual TRVs fitted, they will require installation of a TRV pin type valve in place of the normal screw type valves before you can fit TRV control heads. This is a non trivial bit of plumbing, usually requiring a drain of the system if multiple valves are being installed.

1. HW timing is all you need. You may have a manual stat on the HW cylinder.

2. Perfect

3. Are these ordinary manual stats, with a dial. This would suggest your Climote is no more that a remote timer on all 3 zones, with the built in stat not implemented if the Climote is not located in a suitable area for sensing zone temperature.

4. You could continue to use the Climote as just a timer for HW, set the two Climote CH zones to always on, disable internal stat if not already done, replace the wired wall stats with 2 wired Tado, which would take over all CH zones timing and temperature schedules. You can discontinue the climote sub, it should still operate as a 3 zone timer. Should you replace it with another controller/relay, it would be a simple task for an electrician to exchange the wiring.

5. Exactly. A single smart TRV will call the heat for the entire zone, the other manual non smart TRVs will operate as normal, capping the temperature at their local setting.

6. Home Assistant, Alexa, Homekit, any amount of ways to kick off a boost, or shut off a zone, but with proper schedules, you rarely need to touch anything, and geolocation on the Tado will drop everything to a lower temperature when the house is vacant.

A pair of wired Tado stats will make installation very easy, a system with a controller such as Drayton wiser or Tado with the extension kit will allow you to remove the climote altogether.

That is a single zone CH controller without HW timer, with 2 TRVs within that zone. It doesn't accommodate timer control for your HW and your second CH zone. You will not meaningfully be able to maintain individual CH zone timing with this, meaning the second CH zone is either wired effectively always on with just a manual wall stat for control, or else is wired combining CH1 and CH2, and allow the single Drayton thermostat take control of both zones combined.

The system you need is this one,

this controls 2 CH and one HW zone. It is a wire for wire replacement for your current controller, with three wired zone output relays. You can add TRVs individually within either of the two CH zones, and they will fire that zone only on request for heat from the TRV.