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The media and male violence

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭zv2


    "Dr Cliona Saidlear said young girls need to be made aware that young boys who sit with them in the classroom can also be a danger."

    Young boys should be warned that the little girl sitting beside him can falsely accuse him and have him taken from his family and put into care.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    A completely irrelevant anecdote given that most women's fears tend to center around being on their own in less populated environments.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So, avoid less populated environments... I do. I tend to stick to areas where I know there's a reliable amount of foot traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Quick....tell all the females of Ireland that you've solved their problem by thinking of something they've never considered themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    A very relevant anecdote by way of countering the ridiculous narrative being portrayed by dishonest hacks* in Irish media looking to generate content which puts food on their tables at the expense of portraying women as wilting wallflowers who need constant chaperoning as though they’re living in the middle of Mumbai.


    *I would call them journalists, but that implies they have integrity, a character trait which they are very clearly lacking.


    I might also have mentioned the girl in the lift who I interrupted while she was taking a selfie and the elevator doors opened. I stood there for a minute not sure what to do when she beckoned me in, “you’re grand” I said, “I’ll take the stairs”, pointing to the sign that said only members in the same household could be in the lift. God me out of a tight spot, but I nearly broke my hole falling down the stairs laughing at the encounter.

    That anecdote would have been inappropriate though, because it was fcuking hilarious.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Looks like we have some here who have watched too many Chuck Norris films who think that "something should be done" but using a car as an improvised defensive weapon - Jaysus, that's too much.

    This actually ties back to the topic of women being attacked and calls on "men" to do something. The likes of Women's Aid and the NWCI have no practical suggestions and are clueless. And in fact don't want solutions seeing as their livelihood depends on women remaining victims.

    Someone suggests that women should be offered self protection training and the inevitable, well practiced response is that they shouldn't have to and the mere suggestion of it constitutes victim blaming.

    Using something like a car to stop an attack - there is an emotional, visceral reaction there with it likely seen as cowardly.

    Plenty of people out there living in a fantasy world. Women who think that if they are attacked, some 6 foot 4, 18 stone rugby player will be around to save the day by rescuing the damsel in distress with his bare hands. Then our hero will bring her to bed afterwards.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Wow.. sarcasm, while refusing to deal with what was said... that's new. 🙄

    You seem to expect a reality that is different from that of men. As if, by being women, you're entitled to be safe everywhere, and reality is going to match that expectation, just because you wish it to happen. It's not. As adults we are responsible for our own safety, and that includes avoiding areas where we are vulnerable, or have higher risks.

    The sensible option is to accept that there are dangers in life, and adjust your lifestyle to minimize your exposure to those risks. That's the case for both genders...



  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Countering a ridiculous narrative with an even more ridiculous narrative isn't the power move you think it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Look, I'm not fooled by the disingenous style of 'arguing' people like you employ. You have said absolutely nothing of substance to 'engage with' or 'deal with', it's laughable that you're sitting there thinking you've made some kind of valid point. Women aren't morons, they use every safety behaviour available to them and it still isn't enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I’m clearly no match for your petty sniping.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Yes. If I had a son now I would be working hard on teaching him to be respectful of everyone he encounters and to ensure that he’s never alone in a room with a female he doesn’t know.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You, yourself, said "most women's fears tend to center around being on their own in less populated environments".

    Those are your words, and nothing in my post is twisting or changing what was said. I said that I avoid less populated environments. Why? because as a person, there is a definite risk involved in such places to me.. and if the risk is there for me, then it is there for women.

    The problem with posters like yourself is that you refuse to deal with the arguments made. Instead you deflect, constantly returning to how unfair it is for women to be at risk. However, the simple fact is that everyone is at risk. The risks to men are different than they are for women, but the risks are often just as high...

    I know "women" aren't morons. My mother and sister are probably the most intelligent people i know... and they take care. They drive when they can. They walk with other people, avoiding walking anywhere alone, except in populated areas. They take precautions. That to me is a sign of intelligence, and the truth is that most women will take those same precautions because they understand that the risks exist.

    As for people like me... and the style of arguing.. it's called logic. Less emotion, less idealistic nonsense, more interest in the realities involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Whatever man, I've stopped paying attention to this rot. It's like talking to a brick wall.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not rocket science. Justified use of force isn't hard to understand.

    If someone is going to drive down Grafton Street and kill/injure lots of people, then ram them off the road with your car, 100% justifiable.

    If someone is boxing the head of anyone, shooting them would not be justified.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Who said anything about boxing the head off someone or a mass murder on Grafton St. The case being discussed here involved someone being stabbed multiple times and the attack apparently being stopped by a third party using a car. Your reaction was to say that it wasn't reasonable force. Yet you still haven't said what you would have done or what would have been reasonable force. And now you're deflecting by talking about boxing someone and throwing in a dig about rocket science.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So would have used what I think justified force was. If he believes that using his car was justified, that's his decision, but there is no guarantee anyone else will agree with him.

    What is justified for him, may be different to what is justified for me. I would have thought another weapon would be justified.

    do you think it was reasonable use of force?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    How could you possibly know what most women’s fears are that you imagine you could make such a claim that most women’s fears are anything?

    The sort of hacks that write opinion pieces for their middle class readers have no more of a clue what most women’s fears are than you or I do. I don’t claim to know what most women’s fears are, but if anyone’s fears of anything are such an impediment to their participation in society, that’s not a social problem, and it’s not an issue that can be addressed with social policies.

    It’s why I said earlier that it needs to be considered and addressed at an individual level, in the very same way as anyone with a persecution complex has an issue which can only be considered and addressed at an individual level, and if necessary through counselling.

    My point, and my only point, is that the narratives being portrayed by Irish opinion writers are simply perpetuating social anxiety among their readership, and some people are more prone to it than others, a gullibility which isn’t based upon sex, and working themselves up into a frenzy.

    It’s completely irrational, and as much as they’re a pain in the arse, I was glad to see young women out last night not cowering in fear at the mere sight of a man, or kowtowing to the media narrative of the bogeyman around every corner waiting to jump out and attack them.

    It’s perverse, to be honest, what the media have been allowed get away with the last few years, stoking gender wars nonsense that bears very little relation to reality. It’s why I just don’t bother much with newspapers and try to limit my exposure to other shameless sources of perpetual misery porn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    The use of force in this case was absolutely justified 100%. IMO. Assuming the incident is as being reported and described in the thread. If the woman died not as a result of the stabbing but as a result of the attempt to save her, that is bad but the driver still should be treated leniently in that case.

    A car is one if the best improvised weapons that a person has in an everyday situation.

    We're not allowed to carry actual yet less lethal weapons for self defence. Pepper spray is banned here. Not sure about the UK.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope he is not charged. So long as he can justify his actions and that he believed it was necessary, then he should be ok.

    It will I suspect depend on what else was available to use. I wouldn't advise using a car as a weapon, definitely not in this country, not unless it was to stop another vehicle.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    So are you saying they were adequate in the response that they stopped the assailant, the intent was to stop the attack which was successful, the criminal part comes after and left up to a court of law if they decide to proceed with charges



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭enricoh




  • Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭dog_pig




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    OEJ, don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say or suggest anything about falling short. In fact, I have not made a single judgment about the actions of the driver.

    My only statement was about the dangers of being killing someone in defense of another, in response to another posters comments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    If you happened to be defending this poor lady from assault, you'd first have to pause and consider what would be "appropriate action" to take.

    Perhaps get him in a headlock and try holding him till the Gardai arrived - if you happen to be stronger than him.

    Or start roaring at him while keeping him at bay with a chair

    He has rights too you know esp as an uninvited guest in your house. Best to err on the side of "reasonable force"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,806 ✭✭✭buried


    Concerning that incident in London, its not beyond the realms of possibility that the driver of the car may have thought he was witnessing another brainwashed lunatic terrorist repeating the same knife wielding mass assault seen so many times before on the streets on London in recent years.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭zv2


    One Eyed Jack: "How could you possibly know what most women’s fears are that you imagine you could make such a claim that most women’s fears are anything?

    The sort of hacks that write opinion pieces for their middle class readers have no more of a clue what most women’s fears are than you or I do. "

    Men know how to look behind them on the street; how to scan the bus for psychos; how not to go down certain streets; how to watch the morons outside the chipper, etc. It does not take much imagination to know women's fears, they are much the same as ours.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,120 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    That's horrific.

    He had previous convictions and arrived in Ireland February 2021. Is it too much to ask that background check be carried out? I know there's free movement in the EU, but something needs to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Same could be said of the driver in this case klaz, that’s the point I was making.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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