BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

I think at this stage the only "good" news from it is that it might be released after PMQs and not before, giving them maximum time before next week's PMQs so they can formulate their response to it.

Thousands did indeed share a birthday, and thousands went without a normal birthday because Johnson told them that doing so was putting the NHS at risk and they all needed to take sacrifices for the better of everyone. Did some have cake? Sure, but then some people were committing all sorts of crimes, does that excuse the PM from doing anything he wants?

You are right that most people couldn't give a damn. Had Johnson come out at the start and stated that indeed there was limited gatherings due to long hours and the need for some relief then he would have been able to side step most of this. But he knew that would play badly as thousands of front line workers were never given that option. So he decided to lie. He tried to cover it up. He said no parties had taken place.

So its not the cake, or the drinks. It's the lying about it. The clear indication, being parroted by yourself, that none of this is important and Johnson is far too busy and important to be worrying about silly rules. He hits straight at his persona of 'man of the people' and now he is opting for the 'I'm the leader, I am not the same as you' line.

That is what is riling people up. The police were sent out on patrol to parks, they flew drones over park trails, to find and prosecute people that were breaking the rules. All that money spent, police time, court time, yet Johnson is now saying that the rules were stupid and nobody should be worried about them. So will he answer as to why procesutions are still ongoing? Are fines going to be refunded?

Yes, fines should be refunded by way of pardon and a recognition of people's efforts and the fact that we lived through extraordinary times. I certainly think nobody should lose their job over it so if they want Johnson to pay a fine that's ok. But throw him out on the street? That's not justice, it is politics and infighting.

They did and a lot of them got prosecuted, as will Johnson should he be found guilty. His party and the voters may well punish him more, but hes been a politician for many moons and he knows this and knew this when he threw the parties.

Indeed there does need to be a sense of proportion and those setting the rules should surely be held to the highest standard?

So which is it. Fines should be refunded or Johnson should pay a fine? He lied to Parliament. That is a resigning matter. End of. HE, and you, can try to justify his behaviour as much as you wish, but he lied. He said there were no parties. There were. He then needed a civil servant to investigate whether he remembered if any parties had taken place.

He stood up day after day in front of the nation telling people that losing their jobs, their livelihoods, missing loved ones, not having birthday parties, not being able to attend funerals etc etc, was all necessary because of the virus. Except for him. A 57 year old couldn't last without his birthday cake, but 7 year olds can? Come on.

He lied to parliament, simple as. He was found wanting when the country needed a strong leader. Whether he wriggles out of this, well that is really done to the Tory party. He can't be ousted any other way until the next GE. But that will be his legacy. He can do the right thing, have some form of self respect, and admit his failings, or he can continue to lie and try to brazen it out.

Ah, so we are down to the level of argument that unless everyone gets prosecuted then nobody should!

It's pretty simple, and really has nothing to do with the police. Did Johnson attend parties? Yes

Did he lie about it? Yes

Did he lie to Parliament about it? Yes

Thats it. Everything else is a distraction. The police should do their job, I don't really care what fine he gets. The fines are supposed to be a deterrent, so a fine at this stage serves no real purpose. But he should be treated like everyone else.

The issue here is political. Should leaders be held to standards? You seem to think not. I happen to think that anyone that claims to have the ability to lead should show that ability, and that means showing leadership. Johnson is completely failing in that regards, reduced to caveats and semantics to try to avoid his responsibility.

This leads to the bigger question of if he is prepared to lie about such 'trivial' matters, what else he is lying about? If he believes that the law doesn't or shouldn't apply to him, does he fell that way about others?

It is because the laws are being applied, not for the sake of justice, but because of media terror. I'm not saying he should get off without prosecution of some sort but this whole thing is media terror and it is the same in this country. There have been a million minor infractions of the law and a million blind eyes turned, and rightly so. If the law is to be held to the 'highest standard' as someone said, we need to retrospectively root out ALL those who broke the law - even if it was only a birthday cake - and oust them out of their jobs. There has to be some sense of proportion here.

Mogg saying this mornig that the PM is more akin to a President these days and that they should have a GE instead of booting him out if things come to a head. The mind boggles.

Laws being applied are now part of the terror of the media?

Johnson, as PM, signed off of these laws. They are his responsibility. He knew, or should have, the implications of his decisions. He then choose - not the media, not the opposition, not remainers - he choose to break the very same rules that he demanded that everyone else abide by.

He then chose t lie about it. First in interviews, then in Parliament. Again, he made that decision. Once can assume because he thought he could get away with it. The problem is that his lies have caught up with him as the stories keep piling up, and each new one blows a hole in his previous excuse.

The real issue here is not cake or even lies. These things are part of everyday political intrigue but nobody usually finds out about them unless they are meant to. This is really about politicians using the media to bully and terrorize each other. This is far more serious than cake.

So you dont think leaders should be held to the highest standards because we werent meant to find out they were breaking the laws they were telling everyone else to follow. The cognitive dissonance on display in your posts is astounding.