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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is much more then immigration at fault with our housing market. I'm sure They are living somewhere. You live somewhere do you not?

    They are not to blame.



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    What resources did we take from foreign lands? I dont have any? Maybe people in Ireland have attics full of ivory and African diamonds?

    You walk about dublin, it was Irish people that built the roads, houses, docks etc. It generally wasnt immigrants that built ireland....

    We've been giving charity to places like africa for a hundred years. If we did owe these places anything the debt has been fully repaid....



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    Well obviously increased demand from immigrants puts pressure on the housing stock....

    Irish people cant get houses partly because of immigrants.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Mass immigration has no impact whatsoever on anyones ability to purchase property. That’s entirely the responsibility of the individual, based on their means to be able to pay for it.

    I’m more amazed by your ability to determine anyones citizenship just by looking at them tbh.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Look Brexit was pushed through precisely because a huge swath of the British public were and still are p***ed off with the politicians, the political classes, the elites, the media celebs and the media.

    Now some of it is indeed the old English jingoistic we had an empire but some of it is just people fed up.

    And yes part of that was with immigration, although in their case a chunk of it was Eastern Europeans.

    If you were a savy politician in this country you should be looking at two things with showed really what a lot of people think.

    The first was the citizenship referendum. The Irish people were tired that people were abusing a loophole and basically pulling the pi**. That yes was only campaigned by FF/PDs, FG sat on the sidelines and Greens, Labour and Shinners all campaigned against it.

    People should remember how patriotic those shinners really are.

    The second was Peter Casey.

    Casey was going nowhere, was actually pretty pathetic as a candidate, but he uttered some home truths about another protected and beloved group of the politicians, media, celebs and NGOs.

    He finished with over 22% of the votes despite the fact he was generally awful as a candidate, despite him being hounded by the media and every other shade of politician and every liberal loon in the country. Anyone that dared support him publicly was hounded yet over 22% of the electorate found his message something they could agree with and get behind.

    The reason the likes of Renua, National Party or any of these so called right wing parties never get anywhere is they usually are tied in with religious nutjobs that want us to resurrect archbishop McQuade and want to roll back on abortion, divorce, same sex, homoesexuality legislation.

    And they usually want to leave EU.

    All of that makes them unpalatable to most of the electorate.

    But if sooner or later someone comes along with social liberal ideas, but tough on bogus immigration, crime, career welfareists, etc they will start making headway.

    throughout the world there is growing disconnect between mainstream politicians/political parties, the connected ones like big business, media, NGOs and huge swaths of the electorate that always end up paying for the merry-go-round the aforementioned ones gain most.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    For anyone on the sidelines reading this thread, here you go, here is one of the supporters of mass immigration saying that mass immigration does not make it harder for you to buy a house.

    Dublin must be about 20% immigrant. Of course this level of immigration has an impact on the ability of irish people to get houses.

    Supporters of mass immigration basically lie to win their arguments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Foreign workers in service industry jobs - where are they living?

    They must be in houses with 10+ people sharing, and each paying 200 - 300 each.

    No way a low income worker is paying 600 - 700 per month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are no immigrants making it harder for others to buy houses. unless you are suggesting that all houses sold are to foreign nationals and that Irish are somehow excluded?

    You make a lot of statements on here, but rarely answer any questions. If you are British, as you say, why are you so worried about the Irish and what they do or don't do? Or Europe? Europeans build Europe, according to you, so you consider yourself to be European? Did you vote in the brexit referendum?

    what multiculturalism did you see in the Middle East and what exactly are you an expert in?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    Yeah, that's right. Mass immigration doesnt make it harder for Irish to get houses. *rolls eyes*

    All that economic stuff about higher demand feeding into higher prices obviously doesnt apply to house prices *rolls eyes*



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    There are no immigrants making it harder for others to buy houses

    Obviously, they do. They increase the demand which increase the prices for both rentals and sales, this is how it works. We shouldn't blame them, it's not their (or our, I'm one) fault, but we can't ignore the facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    There’s no lying to win an argument there. I’d say the same to anyone, on the sidelines or not. Quite literally what you’re doing is playing to the peanut gallery, imagining that there’s an audience greater than the small handful of contributors to this thread. I don’t think there is tbh, your efforts are as good as pissing into the wind - only the people who already share your opinions agree with you.



    The ‘if’ in that assertion is doing all the heavy lifting there, notwithstanding the fact that it is actually dependent upon whether or not immigration actually does push down wages. There are a few different factors involved, but it’s generally agreed that the effect of immigration on wages is negligible. In the article you linked to, they appear to be making the claim that there wouldn’t be enough immigrants coming to Ireland to push wages down, but your point is obviously that if wages are pushed down, it impacts on anyones ability to purchase property. Well yes, it does. I don’t think anyone could disagree with such a vague statement of fact.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Irish people can't get houses due to far stronger reasons than that of immigrants. I'm sorry but I don't see immigrants as being an important consideration, except possibly their presence on the social housing lists, which they shouldn't be eligible for, in the first place. But social housing doesn't have much of an impact on the ability of Irish people to buy property.

    The housing crisis is a domestic problem due to the short-sighted policies of successive governments, and the dodgy bureaucracy of the State institutions. Blame of the banks is another real consideration.

    Immigrants will slightly increase demand for properties, but they're not stopping Irish people from purchasing. If migrants were to disappear tomorrow, Irish people would still have the same problems with buying or renting properties. So.. sadly to say, I kinda have to agree with Bubbly.. although I don't agree with the way he's trying to argue it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,350 ✭✭✭✭Geuze



    The individual people are not to blame, no.

    But clearly immigration adds to demand for housing.

    If there were severe restrictions on non-EU immigration, then clearly housing demand would be less than now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Many years ago, when I studied economics, we were told that the price was something determined by Supply and Demand, increased demand, in this case for houses, no doubt has an effect on the price of houses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    No Jack, you're absolutely vital on a thread like this. We need people like you to expose how naive the arguments of the mass immigration supporters are.

    Well done, keep up the good work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    If you deported every immigrant in the morning, it would put a large dent in our housing issue, so I totally disagree. I'm 31 years old, and have been all but forced to live in a situation I don't want to live in, because I can't get accommodation elsewhere, and I've tried several different counties. Of course governments are to blame, but when it comes down to it it's a numbers game, and mass immigration adds thousands to those numbers every year. It doesn't matter if it's renting or buying, people are struggling to get either.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    One hardly needs to have studied economics to understand the principles of supply and demand, nor anyones ability to purchase goods and services. Although to be fair to you I’m sure you covered more than just the basics of economics, whereas many Irish people didn’t, and don’t understand, and don’t care for economics, which is why they find themselves in positions where their ability to purchase goods and services is limited by their means, and they get resentful about it, looking to blame anyone and anything else as opposed to acknowledging that they are responsible for their circumstances in an economy where they didn’t just emerge from a bubble.

    I’m sure everyone is familiar with the concept of ‘expectation vs reality’ too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Ah Klaz!! When an Irish person/couple are trying to buy a house and constantly outbid by a CoCo or NGO Housing Authority, using their own taxes against them, it has a HUGE impact on the ability of Irish people to buy their own places.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    I have an academic research paper open in front of me....

    It says if population increases by 1% house prices increase by 1.4%.....

    Top paragraph in abstract....

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/abs/do-demographic-changes-affect-house-prices/EDCD6AA8D40A41F19D9D24B4AD4F053A



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its negligible. Over 33% of net inward migration for the last two years were Irish nationals. Of the 66% of others, how many are in the market to buy houses?

    We didn't build houses here for years. Supply completely dried up at the start of covid and will take a long time to get anywhere near demand. Add to that the fact that the state no longer build houses to accommodate the social tenants in waiting lists, it's not so simple as saying the 60K ish immigrants are making it harder for others.

    There are basically no houses for sale, no one is buying!

    Also, I would suggest that immigrants who wish to buy here are planning on staying long term, are planning to make their lives here and therefore are invested in their new country. I think that should be encouraged.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Some immigration is obviously very good for a country, but the way it is now isn't suitable at all.

    Really we need sensible limits to prevent runaway house prices, schools getting overcrowded and hospitals being too busy. If you take in too many people too fast that's what will inevitably happen. Allowing anyone from any EU country to arrive really isn't suitable, it'd be wonderful if it did work, but it can't.


    A more sensible means might be to have a set amount we'd take per annum from EU nations, say 30,000, and have a visa lotto, so it'd still be open to anyone to apply, but Ireland wouldn't end up with a situation where too many come at once.


    Unfortunately the EU is very wedded to open borders and even moderate restrictions aren't allowed.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And what has happened to supply? Or will you just ignore that factor?

    nothing was build in this country for years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Its negligible. Over 33% of net inward migration for the last two years were Irish nationals. Of the 66% of others, how many are in the market to buy houses?

    Since I don't have the numbers I will defer to the one that do to analyze the size of the impact. What I can surely say in that from those 66% 100% of them need accommodation.

    There are basically no houses for sale, no one is buying!

    LOL

    I think that should be encouraged.

    Sure, I said that much, it's not their fault and they can't be blamed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    If EU/World workers are coming here legally, working and paying their way there is no issues with them. If they are not, there are laws in place to repatriate them. Unfortunately there is no will from the political elite to deport anyone. As we've seen with MUP there are certain miniscule golden NGO groups that seem to hold the ear of the elites.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s not simply a question of supply and demand. The question is one of affordability.

    Affordable housing schemes in Ireland ended in 2011, and there are plans to introduce new affordable housing schemes in Ireland -





  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What does that have to do with immigration?

    That's government policy, or local authority policy. It's wrong, for sure. But it's not immigrants fault.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Having been involved in the construction sector for decades I can say with some confidence that the onset of mass immigration changed the market hugely. It was a major factor in the boom, and a huge reason for the shortage of properties now.

    You can still argue in favour of the kind of large scale immigration of the type we have, of course, but the way the property market has gone over the last 15 years certainly is a downside.



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