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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Ya, the Connacht game earlier in the season as well, I think; a game where a change at 10 could've really helped.





  • My line on Flannery should read he signed a 1 year contract last year (expires 2022)and hasn't played a minute yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    yea, then the backrows. no hit or push at all, til the ball is fed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,721 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Having been in the front row I can absolutely guarantee you that it would be a complete and utter sh1tshow to form a scrum in that way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    That would almost be a rugby league "scrum"

    Good piece here how Ireland adopted the two knee set-up at scrums.

    https://www.otbsports.com/rugby/the-tight-5-neil-treacy-on-irelands-subtle-scrum-tweaks-1158300



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 lfcheaven-1892


    Opinions on the current Irish Prop depth situation? Are Bealham or O'Toole up to it? Which young props have an opportunity to break into the squad?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    So it's a straight road to the 6Ns now.

    The pack picks itself for next week given the uncertainty around Henderson's fitness. Centre and Wing spots are potentially up for grabs.

    My predicted matchday 23 is

    Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, Doris, Van Der Flier, Conan

    Gibson-Park, Sexton, Conway, Henshaw, Ringrose, Baloucoune, Keenan

    Sheahen, Healy, Bealham, Henderson/Baird, O'Mahony, Murray, Carbery, Earls

    Could see Aki at 12 and Henshaw at 13 and Conway at 14 and Earls or Larmour at 11.

    I know it's Wales and I may regret saying this, but that team could do some serious damage to the Welsh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 lfcheaven-1892


    Should Carty be handed an opportunity on the bench?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'm getting serious pre-England 2019 vibes from the manner in which everyone is writing off Wales. We've seen all of this before. We hype ourselves up and write off the opposition and we're brought crashing down to earth.

    Yes they're missing huge experience in Owens and AWJ, and their tight 5 could be a weakness for them. But they fronted up against South Africa without them.

    Jenkins/Basham/Wainwright is a very strong backrow. Jenkins and Basham are both traditional 7s and breakdown specialists and if they can slow our ball down and allow their defence to generate linespeed it could cause us real problems. So much of what we did well v Japan and NZ was built on the quick ball we got. If our ball is slow, I think we'll really struggle. There's not much between Faletau and Wainright right now.

    Bar North, they have a clean bill of health in the backs, and it looks like Pivac will go for Adams at 13.

    9-Williams 10-Biggar 11-L.Williams 12-Halaholo 13-Adams 14-LRZ 15-McNicholl

    That backline could hurt anyone. Williams at 9 is a class player. Biggar and McNicholl are in top form. And Halaholo, Liam Williams, Adams and LRZ are very dangerous.

    So people need to tone it down when it comes to writing Wales off. People saying we should beat them comfortably either aren't living in the real world or haven't watched rugby over the last 15 years. This is Wales in the 6N. The regions' form in Europe is irrelevant as we all know. The Welsh have their backs to the wall. They've been written off by everyone. They're going to come over here and absolutely hurl the kitchen sink at us. I could very easily see them catching us off guard here. We'll need to be 100% on it to win.

    Bar the tight 5, on paper there's actually not much between the 2 sides



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,608 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Not sure why you'd shoe horn Adams in at 13 when you've a perfectly good test level 13 available in Tompkins



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Adams can play 13 and he has done for Cardiff. He was named to start there v Fiji in November but had to pull out. Pivac also hinted at him playing 13 at the launch.

    He's a very intelligent player, reads the game very well, runs good lines and is a strong defender. I'd be more worried with him at 13 than Tompkins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I’d say that will be very close to it. Not sure if Carberry will bench after such a long lay off. He’s played what half a game since the Argentina game? Wouldn’t be entirely shocked to see Earls ahead of Balacoune but I hope that’s not the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭bilston




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭bilston




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Carty should absolutely be given his chance.

    What has Carbery done to be guaranteed a spot and walk straight back in having not played in weeks?

    Carty has shown far more than Carbery has in recent times and is far less injury prone. You just can't count on Carbery to be available.

    I love how people say "someone needs to put their hand up for the 10 jersey". And then when someone actually does that, we want to pick a guy who has shown nothing in 3 years, hasn't played in weeks and is constantly injured.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He played most of the Wasps game, which was the game he got injured in I think, but hasn’t played since then.

    Initially, it was thought he’d miss the 6 Nations entirely, so was a bit of a surprised to see him named in the squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Whatever else we can say about Carbery, it's very clear the national coaches see something in him that they don't see in the others.

    As for Carty, he's done plenty in the last couple of months to suggest he should be given a go. But equally he's done plenty to suggest he shouldn't.

    If Carbery is properly fit, I'd say he'll get the nod.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Cathal Forde made his pro debut yesterday and looked great. Surly he should be shoehorned as the starting 10 for the 6nations? If hairy byrne is picked for ireland because of his ceiling Cathal Forde is 2 years younger so has a higher ceiling?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Might have gone unnoticed, but Will Connors suffered another knee injury last night. It was his first game back from another injury. The severity hasn't been assessed, but it was bad enough that he had to be taken off limping heavily.

    He wasn't a part of the Ireland squad due to his previous injury but he was arguably Farrell's first choice openside a year ago when he was fit. It's a blow that he's probably going to be out of commission for another while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    That’s hard on him. Speedy recovery Will. I think JVDF accepted the challenge Connors threw down and took his game to a different level over last 12 months or so. Connors will need to go some to raise the bar again, injuries won’t help clearly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Jim Demp is right. Cathal Forde should play!

    Seriously, it will be a tough encounter. It will be tougher if Furlong misses out! Wales somehow play well when representing the national team. The regions form is not a guarantee of success for us. I think we'll win, nut only by a score. Something like 20- 13.

    If Furlong and VDF don't play, I would go with

    1. Porter

    2. Kelleher

    3. Bealham

    4. Beirne

    5. Ryan

    6. Doris

    7. Timoney

    8. Conan

    9. JGP

    10. Sexton

    11. Balacoune

    13. Henshaw

    13. Ringrose

    14. Conway

    15. Keenan

    16. Sheehan

    17. Kilcoyne

    18. T'O'T

    19 .Baird

    20. POM

    21. Murray

    23. Carty

    23. Larmour

    This is with the expectation that Henderson is unavailable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    If Connacht, with Carty at 10, had seen out the Leicester and Stade matches I might have agreed with you, but they didn't and he was part of that unfortunately.

    Sure you're panicking that Wales might beat us, so why risk playing Carty if you have someone who saw us home against NZ less than 3 months ago available?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,947 ✭✭✭TRC10


    So were Bealham and Aki, should they not be in the squad then either?

    Was it Jack Carty's fault that his teammates made tons of handling errors, that Hansen didn't feel like tackling, that refs didn't award clear penalties or that his front row got murdered in the scrum in each of those games?

    Carty was a big reason why they were ever in a position to win those games in the first place.

    Do you really think if Carbery was at 10 they'd have won those games, with his team getting beaten in every aspect?

    Blaming Carty for Connacht losing to Stade and Leicester is like blaming him for the Japan defeat



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭kuang1


    Wait... We're NOT blaming Carty for the Japan defeat? :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I think a half back would have some share of the responsibility. Bealham was taken off after 50 minutes against Leicester when Connacht were well ahead so no blame on him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I've never blamed Carty for the Japan defeat. To be honest it was news to me that he got the blame until OTB started making a big deal out of it a few weeks ago. Although in fairness 2019 seems like 20 years ago so I could be misremembering the reaction to that match.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    To be fair the Irish setup played a bigger part in scapegoating him. The leinster and munster media circles just played along trying to hide the shame of losing to a team like Japan. It wasnt like the famous rog on the lions losing the series in SA. People should watch Sexton in the NZ game, probably the worst 10 performance by anyone in a world cup. Joes Ireland finished up like oneill and keanes Ireland, confidence destroyed by overcritical management who didnt trust the players. Joe was happy to let carty take the heat while he rode off into the sunset.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Nobody has ever blamed Carty for the Japan defeat.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    We should be beating Wales reasonably well next week. We’re at home. We put together a few really good performances in November that we are justifiably positive about. They have a lot of injuries. I don’t think they are a great side. They got a lot of luck last season which gave them huge momentum but I don’t think they looked great until the France game. They were very poor vs NZ in November but I didn’t see much of them other than that in November other than them struggling against a poor Australian side.

    We need to be kicking on from November and building towards next year. Beating this Welsh team well is where we need to be. We need to stop being so “ooohhh we need to be wary of opponents, they might beat us and we need to never talk about beating them”. That’s not what top teams do. Top teams back themselves to win. We need to start thinking that way.



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