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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    As far as i can see, the main issue being repeated is settling too many migrants together, they dont have to assimilate and start enclaves and resentment grows from both sides then. Where im from alot of the asylum seeker kids play gaa and inetgrate very well as they have to as they are vastly outnumbered. Its best scenario but in that white paper i think Roderic o gorman was on about settling more migrants together- crazy stupid decision.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    having been in fromt of the PAC, it's too late by the time it gets there.

    they look back, not forward, so again I would say nothing has been done on this, nothing,zero. tada, that's the reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Ireland receives roughly 60k mgrants a year right now... that's going to continue, and if anything will increase as places like Denmark limit their migration quotas. So, we're still firmly in the crosshairs, and our governments still haven't any truly effective action plans to ensure integration.


    I don’t expect you to aim for balance, but I didn’t imagine context was expecting too much -


    Of the 65,200 people who migrated to Ireland in the year to April 2021, some 30,200 (46.3%) were estimated to be Irish nationals, the highest returning number of Irish nationals since 2007. Of the 54,000 emigrants from Ireland, 22,800 (42.2%) were estimated to be Irish nationals. Consequently, Ireland experienced net inward migration of Irish nationals, rising to +7,300 in 2021 from 500 in 2020.


    https://emn.ie/immigration-decreases-by-nearly-24-in-year-to-april-2021/



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Small populations of immigrant groups tend to integrate, because they have little choice in the matter. However, as populations increase (due to immigration, as opposed to birth rates) ethnic enclaves form, and there is no need to integrate because services can be provided by others of that ethnic group.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Nothing has been done on what, exactly?

    The point of me mentioning the PAC is that they ensure the State is getting value for money. That would suggest by any reasonable interpretation that they are the body to which Government is accountable for it’s expenditure, and knowing that much, it’s not unreasonable to assume that the various departments do have plans and budgets and so on.

    Do plans always go to plan? No, and to argue that would be just as silly as trying to argue that there is no plan, when we know that there is (as aspirational and all as it may be, and published before the current circumstances in which we find ourselves) -





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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Yep exactly it, thats why it should be spread well across society and not just landing 100 asylum seekers in a village of 300 people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Costings. We simply dont' know the costs involved, or the positives or negatives in any form.

    No analysis of any kind, nothing, zero.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I know you read the post, because you quoted the post. What I don’t understand is how you missed this bit -

    It might not look like it, hell it never looks like it, but that’s precisely because we don’t have all the details to hand.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There was no cost benefit anlayis of any kind on this. No best case, worse case, likely outcomes, nothing. we are flying in the dark here. No studies done of any possible effects.

    No risk analysis of any kind, no analyis if any kind.

    If undertaking any project, you should look at the risks and potential costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    Apart from you, I think everyone admits that immigration puts house prices up....

    I'll be honest. I would expect a school kid to be able to grasp that.....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    A study was done by UCL into the costs to the British exchequer associated with Non-EU and EU migrants.

    Between 1995-2011, Non-EU migrants took out £120 billion more in benefits than they contributed to the Exchequer.

    EU migrants contributed a surplus of £20 billion.

    That will give you some indication of the financial cost differential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    Well......

    I think it's more complex than that.... no one considers the impact that immigration has on the countries immigrants come from....

    In the UK we have a lot of Indian doctors etc. There are ethical questions about poor countries training doctors then rich countries taking them.

    Also places like Afghanistan etc arent going to change if the educated elite (and people that are western thinking) are allowed to move to the West.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    That will give you some indication of the financial cost differential.


    No it won’t, because without any context or explanation, they’re just figures. A four year old would be able to tell that one figure is greater than the other, but that’s all could be determined from what you’ve written. It provides nothing more than misleading information.


    A study from University College London (UCL) in 2014 (following a discussion paper in 2013), came to this conclusion.

    Their main results estimated that during the years 1995-2011 the total fiscal impact of EEA migrants in the UK was about +£4.4 billion (an annual average of close to +£0.3 billion per year).

    On the other hand, the total fiscal impact of non-EEA migrants for this period was estimated at -£118 billion (an annual average of close to -£6.9billion). The corresponding value for the UK-born population during the same period was a net fiscal cost of -£591 billion, meaning that over the whole period there wasn’t a big difference between the contributions of immigrants and the UK-born population on a per capita basis.


    https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-immigrants-affect-public-finances/



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    So you are saying that non European Is a disaster for the UK taxpayer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I didn’t say that though. I provided context for the misinformation in the post I quoted. Your interpretation is entirely your responsibility.



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    It's what the figures indicate....it was hardly "misinformation"....

    I've seen other research that shows non european immigration into europe is an absolute disaster for European taxpayers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I’ve not only demonstrated that it was misinformation, I’ve demonstrated why it was misinformation.

    Another interpretation of the information I provided is that British nationals are a disaster for the British taxpayer, and I have no doubt that someone, somewhere, makes that absolute disaster of an argument.

    In the same way, I have no doubt you’ve seen research that supports your beliefs. I’m hardly expected to be surprised by that, am I? Is anyone? Someone is, maybe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    For the last decades Europeans have been repeatedly told "we need immigrants to pay for the pensions of Europeans".

    However the evidence shows that non europeans dont pay enough tax to pay for their own upkeep.... never mind pay the pensions of us Europeans......

    But you come on here complaining about "misinformation"?

    The arguments of people wanting multiculturalism are absolutely bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    British nationals are a disaster for the British taxpayer, but they are citizens and nothing can be done.

    Non-EU nationals are a disaster for the British taxpayer, the are not citizens and can be repatriated/removed from the country if the political will is there.

    Spot the major difference.

    Both together are an even bigger disaster for the British taxpayer. You are advocating for them to stay on the basis that citizens cost money. It's the same ridiculous argument used when there are sex attacks like Cologne, Rome etc. 'We have native sex offenders too.' As if importing more isn't an issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Yes, I complained about the misinformation in that particular post.

    I’m not responsible for anything anyone else told you and I cannot possibly be held accountable for arguments I didn’t make. I suggest you take that up with the people who told you that in the first place.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    So do you actually have one reason why multiculturalism is good?

    So far we've collectively agreed mass immigration has pushed up house prices. We've also established non European immigration costs the taxpayer money.

    There must be a reason why you support multiculturalism? Just one semi decent argument?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I didn’t think anyone here would actually try and make the argument, so I have to accept you have proven me wrong on that point at least.

    I’m not advocating for immigrants to either stay on or leave, I’m arguing against the idea that immigrants shouldn’t be permitted entry in the first place.

    It’s your own argument is fundamentally misleading, unless you’re actually genuinely suggesting that anyone is arguing that any society needs sex offenders? I don’t think anyone has ever made that argument, but I won’t make the same mistake again of assuming nobody would make such a stupid argument.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Well now you’re just being straight up dishonest, and you can’t expect that anyone should have to provide you with a reason when the basis of your own arguments is to misrepresent what has gone before already. It would be pointless to provide you with more ammunition, wouldn’t it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    The most repeated point in this thread is that immigrants who come here on legal visa's to work are more than welcome. The people the alleged "racists" in this thread has any issue with are with those who land here as welfare drains, or who work in the black economy. We need a dedicated arm of law enforcement to round these criminals up and repatriate them, rather than rewarding them for breaking multiple laws. There will still be plenty of immigrants/foreigners here after these are removed.

    We, as in the EU, should also have offshore processing camps for "refugees" like Australia. Its unfair to let the likes of Italy, Greece etc take the brunt of the tsunami. I'm sure Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia or Egypt would be willing to rent some land to the EU if they got a decent price. Would stop people drowning crossing the Med. Win Win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    That would be an incredibly simplistic point of view tbh. Consider for example the news I’ve just read where I can already see how it could be bound to upset some people, because it goes against everything they’ve been arguing up to this point -



    146,300 people are now working in the construction sector. There is also growing interest for employment permits from abroad, with 27,000 applications in 2021.


    Politicians demonstrating yet again that an electorate gets the people they vote for -


    Following on from a tense exchange during Leaders' Questions today, Micheál Martin said that Sinn Féin were trying to portray Government as some sort of "elite, upper class cabal".

    He said that when he looks at the likes of Eoin Ó Broin, Sinn Féin's Housing Spokesperson, he considers such jibes "a bit rich".

    Mr Martin said the party should "stop lecturing people as if somehow you're the working-class hero".


    Classy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I’m genuinely scratching my head here and wondering do you have even the remotest idea of what you’re talking about, and the feasibility of what you’re suggesting. You will of course answer in the affirmative, but from where I’m sitting it doesn’t appear very likely. Just to give you some idea of the complexity of how immigration operates already, this articles a good ‘un (and it’s not often I could say that about thejournal!) -



    As far as addressing crime prevention goes, well there’s this -



    You’ll note that Britain has forfeited it’s access as a consequence of Brexit. I could point out the irony, but it seems a bit mean-spirited 😏



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Should have put back on the first plane back to Brussels but managed to stay for 3 years no doubt costing the state a fortune in legal bills.

    "The Minister, citing EU’s regulations and the agreements governing applications for asylum, deemed that the woman’s bid for international protection should be handled by the Belgian authorities.

    The woman, who has been in Ireland for three years, first entered the EU through Brussels on a Belgian visa. 

    She had been in Belgium for a couple of days before arriving in Ireland, where she first applied for protection.

    Appeal to minister

    She claims that the Minister should use her discretion, and cancel the proposed transfer, allowing the woman to seek International Protection in Ireland.

    The woman, from the Democratic Republic of Congo, pleaded that she should be allowed remain here on humanitarian grounds, because she had formed relationships during her time in Ireland and due to the risks posed by Covid-19.

    The Minister refused her application and said there were no reasons to indicate that the transfer to Belgium would put the woman at risk, nor would the move breach any of her rights, including her rights under the European Convention on Human Rights.

    In High Court judicial review proceedings, the woman sought to quash the Minister’s refusal to halt the transfer."



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    If the political will was there, it would happen. I don't expect all illegals to be rounded up over a weekend, but we should be pro-actively seeking them out and repatriating them. They have no business being here. We need detention center's built near to Dublin and Shannon airports and anyone caught should be held there whilst the next flight to their destination is sourced. You can link to all the sob stories you like. If the law needs to be changed, change the law. If it requires a referendum, put it to the people. I'm very confident it would pass in a landslide, same as the anchor baby legislation.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    do you understand that immigration and multiculturalism are not the same thing?



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A very well known argument used by anti immigration believers, I doubt anyone actually ever buys it.



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