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Galway traffic

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How many videos of Monkstown Road not backed up will I need to share for you to admit that your claims are nonsense?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Where exactly is this bicycle lane full of fallen leaves in late January please?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have been to the Netherlands and their cycling provisions went in decades ago.

    Its much safer to cycle there but I am talking about a parent putting a child in a box attached to a bike and cycling at speed on a busy road with only a painted line segregating her from traffic.I regularly see another woman cycling with three unhelmetted small children in a box attached to the front of the bike,if she loses control of the bike the children will be turfed out like eggs from a basket and the skulls will be cracked open.

    Many roads here are too narrow to accomodate cyclists and traffic safely so the least a parent can do is not cycle at speed downhill with a child bouncingin the back with no protection on their head. As I said I cycled for years through all sorts of weather and the thought of taking half a road away to provide me with a two way cycling facility never crossed my mind. I actually loathe those two way cycling schemes,its much better in my opinion to cycle with the traffic in the direction you are going.

    The Deansgrange, Blackrock one way proposal has been abandoned now too, another hair brained scheme that would have brought misery to local residents,more of the traffic evaporation arguements rolled out,its just so predictable and tiring at this stage.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The only segregation on the Monkstown road is painted lines and the space for cars is two narrow so cars are encroaching on cyclists. Many people do not like cycling on the two way cycle lane as it can be full of lycra wearing speeding male cyclists so they cycle on the Monkstown road and its unsafe.

    2 conflicting statements there.

    If you cant cope with cycling in traffic then maybe you should stick to walking on the footpath or drive or take public transport.

    lol

    The sandymount two way scheme would have been utilised in the same way,nice trip on the bike for people,many of whom probably dont even live in the area

    Is living in the area a requirement for travelling through the area? If so I wonder how many motorists are from outside the area and have you spoken to them about their invasion?

    And the facilities in Dunlaoghaire and in Salthill and in every seafront area in the country need to be accessible to everyone but particularly the elderly and those with disabilities and no, suggestions to buy adult sized trikes is not a solution.

    Safe infrastructure provision enables additional modes to access these areas safely. It should also be noted that its the cycling groups in Galway doing most of the calling for additional infrastructure for those with mobility issues and the elderly. Also nothing wrong with trikes. There are more and more of them on the roads lately and they allow for a lot of folks to get out for a spin that otherwise would not be able to.

    What is with that group of people spreading themselves over the whole road

    Nothing wrong with it, perfectly legal

    I would never have put my children in danger like that.

    That you view cycling as dangerous is kinda the point. Its not safe for children and we need to make provision for all the cyclists you dont see

    Also one of the women has two children in another segment has two children in a cargo bike,neither child has a helmet on and neither has the mother.

    I see this everyday, one woman was speeding downhill yesterday in a bicycle lane full of fallen leaves with traffic whizzing by, her three year old was not securely tied and neither did he have a helmet on. If the parent lost control of that contraption that child would have been turfed out head first into traffic.

    According to the stats, you are more likely to suffer a head injury in a car than on a bike, so I hope you are wearing yours when you're driving.

    I have been to the Netherlands and their cycling provisions went in decades ago.

    They started decades ago, but its an ongoing process

    Its much safer to cycle there but I am talking about a parent putting a child in a box attached to a bike and cycling at speed on a busy road with only a painted line segregating her from traffic.

    Its good that you acknowledge that paint is not infrastructure and is not classed as sufficient by anyone these days. Thankfully the days of painted bike lanes are coming to an end as councils have woken up over the last few years. The new design guidelines for cycling infrastructure will be released next year which will make this a thing of the past.

    BTW, welcome to the discussion 🙂



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,656 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    "like eggs from a basket and skulls will be cracked open" 😁



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The draft City Development Plan for Galway City covering 2023-2029 is now open for public consultation


    I would strongly advise everyone to take the time to go through the document and make a submission on the elements that you have a stake in.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Specific to the topic of this thread, here are some excerpts from the draft plan. Note a lot of whats in it is just a copy and paste from the current GTS and as such does not hold much value as the GTS is about to get rewritten.

    • Reiterates the population projection for the city to be 120,000 by 2040 i.e. a 50% increase
    • Regarding the current road network - "The network also supports a high volume of commuters into the city on an average weekday numbering in excess of 30,000 vehicles (15,000 each way) entering and leaving the city. In light of this volume of traffic and the expected additional growth, which will without intervention perpetuate the current unsustainable patterns, there is an urgency to re-think the way we move to help ease congestion in and around the city and to reduce carbon emission levels."
    • They still appear to be putting all their eggs in the GCRR basket as there is minimal investment (time, funding, effort) in other modes (walking, PT, bike) in comparison

    There are a number of objectives, which seem to run contrary to what the GCRR will deliver so its really hard to see how they are going to square the circle on this

    • Develop a compact city, where sustainable land use and transportation are integrated and where there is choice and accessibility to a range of transport modes, with increasing support for a shift to more sustainable modes - The GCRR delivers the exact opposite of this
    •  The promotion of sustainable patterns of transport - The GTS shows building the GCRR will not lead to any significant shift to sustainable transport
    • Support the implementation of the Galway Transport Strategy (GTS) which will advance the delivery and modal shift to more sustainable modes of transport - Again, the GTS shows that the numbers will barely shift as they are only doing token measures to support sustainable transport in comparison to the proposed GCRR
    • Support the Galway Transport Strategy (GTS) and the associated implementation programme which will deliver a high quality public transport network, provide and encourage the use of other sustainable modes of transport, and facilitate the efficient movement of private vehicles and freight. - And again, token measures which do not lead to a connected network will not encourage any significant shift which means the result will be the same, congestion.
    • Continue to progress a sustainable transport solution for the city through the implementation of measures included in the GTS and required supporting projects in particular the N6 GCRR project. - "We are going for sustainable all the way, just we are prioritising the least sustainable option, cos its sustainable" or something

    Walking

    • The compact, walkable nature of the city, coupled with the high student population has contributed to the Galway sustaining a relatively high walking mode share of 23% of all trips taken.
    •  improvement and prioritisation of pedestrian facilities to incorporate permeability and linking of walking networks in the city core.
    • extended opportunities for pedestrianisation, improvement in the quality of the public realm, increased priority and safety for pedestrian facilities, in particular at junctions and crossings, and application of universal design principles to support the whole journey approach.
    • the pedestrian and cycle bridge south of the Salmon Weir Bridge, due to commence construction in 2022.
    •  proposed pedestrian and cycle bridge on the piers of the old Clifden Railway line from Woodquay to NUI Galway 
    • At Wolfe Tone Bridge, a cantilevered pedestrian bridge crossing is currently at design stage in order to provide safer and improved pedestrian crossing facilities adjacent to the existing bridge
    • create usable spaces out of existing highway and parking areas including at Woodquay, Galway Cathedral, Eyre Square North and at the Small Crane, which could be transformed to deliver a better pedestrian experience and high quality public realm.
    • rejuvenate the city centre streets and existing civic spaces such as at Fishmarket. 

    Buses

    • bus frequencies will be increased to a 15 minute minimum during peak times - Needs to be sub 10 mins
    • bus stops will be within a 10 minute walk to where most people live
    • The objective of the Cross-City Link is to prioritise walking, cycling and public transport along its length. Car traffic, which does not have a specific destination in the city centre, will no longer travel into the medieval core of the city between restricted hours – making routes safer for walkers, cyclists, and mobility impaired, and creating space for public transport to move freely. - Note the bolded line. This is a change as far as I can tell, from no access to the city center through the cross city link, to now being "you just need to want to go somewhere in the city center". Really, REALLY hope this is not the case, otherwise the cross city link is FUBAR before its even built. They'll need to clarify that line
    • BusConnects Galway will deliver the rationalised network of five high-performing cross-city public transport routes and will form the ‘fixed spine’ of future public transport in Galway.
    • BusConnects Galway is advancing the development of this network plan and associated infrastructure. It will comprise of next generation bus lanes, a bus shelter program, enhanced services, cashless fares and account-based ticketing. Under the BusConnects programme, the NTA intend to upgrade the existing bus fleet to transition to a fleet of low emission vehicles which will reduce both noise and air pollution.

    Light Rail

    • Feasibility study to be completed - Nothing new there

    Heavy Rail

    • double tracking of the railway line from the city to Athenry
    • or a more limited accommodation of stopping bays is to be investigated for both passenger services and potential freight services from Galway Port. - I don't think we'll see rail freight to/from Galway port in our lifetimes. Galway port is classed as a regional port only and so is too low of a classification to qualify for investment in this regard. Besides which, Euro freight has many other closer port options so purely from a logistical sense, Galway makes no sense for shipping companies.
    • The facilitation of rail stops within the city which can support commuter services is also supported by the Council. - Roscam & Renmore are the likely contenders for this IMHO
    • Ceannt Station as a major mutli-modal transportation hub

    Park and Ride

    • Despite talking about this for a decade they still say they are looking into it and nothing more. This particular one is pure facepalm and amazingly frustrating as the routes are known, the land is there, its literally just waiting for CPO, funding and building yet they still can't even say which routes they are looking at nevermind where the P&R's are going to go.

    Cycling

    • The GTS includes for a core, secondary and feeder Cycle Network which supports each other and reinforces connections across the city and environs. - One important thing to note here, per the GTS, the likes of the feeder network have little more than signage planned i.e. signs to tell drivers that there are cyclists. A safe network this does not make
    • Where possible the proposed routes are fully segregated from motor traffic. In other locations, the network includes on road cycle lanes or sharing facilities with bus lanes. - There are no routes where fully segregated routes are not possible, it just depends on what the priority is, not impacting car travel above all or providing safe infrastructure that can be used to get from A to B by anyone on a bike
    • Where it is proposed to limit traffic, particularly in the city centre, the cycling environment will become much safer and more attractive. - Not much good if you can't get there safely
    • Expansion of the bike share scheme
    • Providing convenient cycle parking near bus stops and at key locations across the city, including at education locations, transport hubs, employment areas, commercial and community hubs and where appropriate in residential areas. 

    Driving

    • The aforementioned GCRR
    • gradual reduction in the level of provision of on-street parking and the rationalising of access to off street facilities.This is in order to minimise car circulation within the city centre and to provide more road space for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport. The exception will be for disabled driver parking which will continue to be accommodated in all areas.
    • The reduction of on-street car parking will be combined with the introduction of a parking price mechanism which will help to make the option of public transport more attractive and to create a disincentive for car-centric travel into the city to help contribute towards behavioral change and modal shift.
    •  there remains significant traffic congestion with most main junctions operating over capacity. 

    I think this quote basically sums up their approach, skill, knowledge and willingness to take real action

    "The existing road network needs to cater for a range of users and a variety of journeys within the city and even with investment in sustainable modes the problems cannot be entirely addressed."

    The only issue with that is its 100% incorrect and there exists a colossal volume of research, studies, reports and data that indicate otherwise. The above quote sorta explains the poor effort, in many respects, the GCC are taking as regards sustainable modes. Their logic defies belief and it can ONLY be concluded that they are deliberately avoiding putting serious effort into improvements for sustainable modes to try and make a case for the GCRR. Its a bonkers approach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭ratracer


    Great synopsis @[Deleted User] , thanks! ( even if it is a little underwhelming and depressing)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well that's not very inspiring! Would rather they picked out fewer and better defined goals and actually did them. Most of these projects roll development plan to development plan.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Their logic defies belief and it can ONLY be concluded that they are deliberately avoiding putting serious effort into improvements for sustainable modes to try and make a case for the GCRR. Its a bonkers approach.

    This is it in a nutshell, been doing it for decades.

    Same approach was adopted with the previous "Bypass" as well.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jaysus, how bad are things in Limerick that Galway is seen as a better option for funding




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    For all those who keep saying the Galway Ring Road will allow the rest of the city to have priority reallocated to public transport and active travel, all you need to do is look at Limerick to understand why no one believes that. They've already had their €660m bypass/tunnel for more than a decade yet the centre is still clogged with cars and there are no serious plans to change that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭yer man!


    What are the odds now that this salthill cycleway gets shelved when presented to the councillors?

    I hate to be pessimistic but that crowd can be very fical, I know the voted 16-1 for the trial in the past but let’s be honest, they can’t lead, they don’t know what they’re doing.

    If something like this cannot get the go ahead in Galway, honestly, it’s going to set the place back years! Even car centric development isn’t progressing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭ratracer


    I have a no doubt at all that the councillors will do a complete U-turn on this. They aren’t brave enough to decide on something like this, even though it’s only a 6 month trial!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    well,that was a whole load of nothing.🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱😴



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    It's still up in the air, I think. Clodagh Higgins has done her U-turn, not for the first time. It seems short sighted to me. She comes across as a weather vane with no firm principles, just swinging whichever way she thinks the wind is blowing. Are the other FG councillors going to row in behind Clodagh or will they see their interests lie closer to Hildegarde Naughton, who has already invested a lot of political capital in this project?

    Then you have Labour, who just published a detailed submission supporting Option 2 with some sensible tweaks. Niall McNelis could still go against that but it wouldn't look good.

    The three independents on the east side would all be happy to go against it, I think. There were screen shots on Twitter of texts to constituents, purporting to come from Declan McDonnell, advising people to send in submissions against the cycle lane.

    Fianna Fail will weigh up the ramifications carefully before deciding. Mike Cubbard? Who knows.

    So four Councillors definitely for, no matter what. Another five Councillors most likely against. And then wait and see for the other nine?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah seems most likely.

    A lot of them are back-pedaling, they flip flop depending on which side is the most vocal. Very few seem to hold their own beliefs.

    Technically they'll only be reviewing which of the 2 options they're going ahead with. Possibly with changes based on the public feedback, not sure.

    It could be interesting if there is a large local support in the consultation, there are very vocal small groups for and against but a large quieter middle ground.

    Both options the council offered are very much lacking, but hopefully the better of them can be improved upon with all the consultation feedback.

    If they're going to block a temp cycleway (again!) they might need to pull some political tricks. They're not meant to be able to vote again for 6 months after the last 17-1 approval vote. Possibly some dirty delay tactic, pushing it into Donal Lyons' term as mayor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    Thats why we have plans to use the bypass and the space it gives as reason to put in alternative transport... Limerick screwed up but that doesn't mean Galway will also... Galway is trying to learn from their mistake not repeat it..

    Also Galway is growing faster than Limerick... Limerick has 6 -7 bridges or tunnels over/under the Shannon... Galway is going to end up with two...



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    It is not bravery... There was a discussion period and the public looks like a pretty resounding no... Thats why we have these discussions... Concillors will leverage the Emergency Services as the excuse...



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats why we have plans to use the bypass and the space it gives as reason to put in alternative transport

    And again, you keep saying this yet there is no plans to free up space if the GCRR ever opens.

    Who is the "we", what are the "plans"?

    If you have verifiable information that says otherwise please do share it otherwise this exists only in your imagination.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    It was the executive who came up with the options....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭ratracer


    I would see it as bravery, because not trying something is the easy option. All that is being done here is a trial, for 6 months. Why are people so against or afraid of that idea? If it doesn't work out, all opposed can then say 'I told you so....' but seem very afraid of it being a successful trial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Mike Cubbard has publicly come out against both Option 1 and 2. Posted on his Facebook page.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    In concert with the Mayor and Greens most likely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,904 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Remind us how much this trial is going to cost.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Be very afraid when they mention the word Trial.

    The local residents where I live were told a cycle lane was a trial too,it has caused a lot of difficulties in the area and its empty most of the day and there was no review of it,we are now stuck with it.

    This caused a huge lack of trust in officials and politicans and residents have mobilised against other bicycle lanes they know will make their living environment very unpleasant, eg long tailbacks of traffic spewing fumes through open windows,housing estates being used as rat runs, smaller local roads being overrun to avoid lengthy waits at traffic lights.

    You need to have the local population onside with proposals and local concerns need to be listened to,if you dont do this and instead give ear to loud vocal lobby groups then no progress will be made. Politicans,particularly the local councillors are there to represent the community and they know the real level of support or opposition to plans.

    Saying a public consultation showed 70 per cent support for something means nothing when lobby groups are mobilising on social media and making muliple submissions from all over the country.

    The county councillors know the true local feelings on issues because they are getting it in the necks from their neighbours and local residents,they have to listen to residents fears because if they dont then there is no point to local councillors, we might as well just let officials do what they want and dispense with local government completely.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its just a word of warning to others who think a "trial" means anything,it doesnt.

    And dont believe when someone tells you traffic dissipates, it doesnt, it just moves to adjoining roads.

    Its really simple, you have three cyclists on three roads, you close one road so you have two cyclists on one road now so the same number of cyclists in less space.

    Its the same with the cars.



This discussion has been closed.
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