The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

To address your last question first: if I co-own a company, and the company pays me a hundred euros an hour, and you pay my company one thousand euros to dig a hole, I dig the hole in an hour. The total costs, including my salary of a hundred euros an hour come to seven hundred euros. What do you call the difference between the cost of seven hundred and the payment of one thousand euros?

You made a payment of one thousand euros to a company to dig a hole, it cost the company a total of seven hundred to dig the hole. What do you call the three hundred euro?

I actually do appreciate that none of that makes sense to you.

I did think that it would end up that way.

It tells me and other posters all we need to know.

Why would any sane builder in the world build houses for the Council at a cost price of 300,000 when they can build them for 300,000 and sell them for 400,000. You would want to be certifiably insane to only charge the Council 300,000 for your hard work.

Even Mick Wallace, the great socialist developer, wasn't stupid enough to do that.

How can you make a loss but can't make a profit?

You don’t seem to actually understand what profit means. Well done on proving to everyone just how idiotic your posts are 😂.

You pay me 400,000 to build a house for you, all that money is mine to cover my costs and more.

House is only worth 300,000 on the open market, you've lost 100,000, I have that 400,000 to do with as I please.

Not for profits like O Cualann seem to be able to project manage housing developments efficiently and at a very good cost (like this development of 49 houses in Poppintree Dublin). https://www.ocualann.ie/new-page-10

I think that was the development where the house that cost €170K to build and buy, sold for over €300K about a year ago. O Cualann paid Dublin City Council €1000 per site (instead of €30K). If the house is sold on with 10 years (which happened in this case), O Cualann / DCC have a clawback (think they got back €60K) from the sale of the house. O Cualann said that they had tried to arrange that the houses would be sold back to them if people were moving on, but people could not get mortgages with that as a condition so this is what they came up with.

Just on the the failure of Gov. to oversee major projects. The county councils have much better experience of managing building of projects like this - i.e., they have hands on engineers, architects and planners dealing with projects whereas the Gov. Depts are generally pen pushers with no practical experience.

Worth looking at how O Cualann do it.

You think a scheme where someone took advantage of an opportunity of purchasing a brand new A rated home for 170K and sold it on for 300k after 3 years and pocketed 70k profit is a good?

You are right there is something worth looking at but not as a model to roll out.

Are you posting as a Moderator, Administrator or a normal poster?

And on who’s behalf are you interjecting here?

I think it is very clear what a profit is,and how a business can generate a profit, other posters don’t seem to understand this.

Just curious why you have chosen to post this explanation now, and if it is a Moderator instruction, or just your personal opinion.

I think it's clear enough.

"Payment" by the LA to a developer will factor in the "profit" charged by a developer.

Now how one can say with a straight face that there is no "profit" in this scenario beggars belief but yes, some will try and spin that yarn. Developers wont work for free.

Put simply, the mantra "it's cheaper to build than buy" is just that. There is no guarantee that will be the case, as a developer will make a margin in both cases.

Unless it starts with a bold mod note, it's typically just as a normal poster.

I don't think Brucie even believes this anymore, but it's a distraction from the other questions (how do SF get the councils to agree to the plan and why leases can be used and be more efficient of buying).

It also means in the future the "no profit" lie can be maintained as nothing will be conceded, matter how ridiculous the position.

I am reliably told that lending banks expect to see a 15% developer margin on the net of VAT selling prices.

House sells at 340k approx, 300k net, expected developer margin is 45k per house.

That is not being achieved recently due to input cost inflation.

The builder margin is obviously less, as there is much less costs and risk involved.

Yep - cost effective housing. What do you suggest - DCC sell the plots for 30K so that they have enough money to pay for temporary housing in hotels and guesthouses. The Council is not going to lose out because they have a clawback of the cost of the site.