How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

Did you read the post I was replying to? I posted those articles in reply to that poster as he was peddling blatant lies to further his partitionist agenda, he claimed about the study, and I quote "outside SF and Irish American websites it isnt really mentioned at all". When in fact the study was reported on by all the major media outlets.

Yes one of the articles does mention another minor mediocre study on unification which you have already posted on here, what is your point? The study I posted by Karl Hubner is by FAR the most well resourced and professional study on Unification, taken by some of the greatest experts from around the world who have also done similar studies on German and Korean unification.

You are also stating more lies in your post, the study was not commisioned by friends of Sinn Fein, it was commissioned by the KRB, a San Francisco Bay area–based nonprofit social welfare organisation that promotes social welfare and conflict resolution through education.

So I'm going to ask you the question again, a question you have refused to answer, if this study is such rubbish as you and the rest of the partitionists on here are claiming, then why has it received no criticism? Why have all the economists who commented on the study praised it so much? Why is the only criticism any of you have been able to provide for the whole thread a single article by the Irish times and an article by a blogger who goes by the name of Slugger O'Toole? Both of which openly admit they have no experience in economics whatsoever, how have all the major media outlets reported on the study without any criticising a study that was taken by some of the greatest the experts from around the world?

What does any of this bloody matter? The ONLY reason I posted those articles was because Kaiden Happy Mouthpiece claimed about the study that "outside SF and Irish American websites the study isnt really mentioned at all". I only posted those bloody articles to disprove his blatant lies, no other reason at all. I was simply showing him that study was reported on by all the major media outlets.

The study was taken by some of the greatest experts in the world who have also carried out similar studies on the unification of Germany and Korea, who paid for them to carry out the study doesn't make a difference, all economists who looked at the study overwhelmingly praised it for being as good as any study can be, it was state of the art.

OK grand, so we're in agreement then, the only people in the world who have criticised a study that has received massive international praise are a single journalist from the Irish times and a blogger who goes by the name of Slugger O'Toole.

Let's move on.

I've no idea if it's a good study. What worries me is that a study paid for by SF could only find a benefit of an increase of 35bn in GDP after 8 years!

The population increases by 30% overnight but GDP takes 8 years to increase by approx 10%. No way that will cover all the additional costs.

Except they aren't some of the greatest experts in the world. One is from a political lobbying group for Korean unification who would hardly say that a unification is bad, the other used to work for Citibank. Hardly, the world's leading experts on the Irish economy.

The study was a joke and has repeatedly been exposed as such. The primary work on this issue is the work that has been done by John Fitzgerald.

Such a sad post, but so true.

The damage that Irish people in the form of republicans did to their fellow human beings and their own community was immense.

yeah - Im sure when the shinners get into power you'll pretend you never posted that

where in gods name did i mentioedn pol pot and year zero *whatever the **** that is)?

Seriously - I had breakfast already. No more waffle for me thanks. I dont know if you just like to hear yourself typing or what, but it would help if you made the odd bit of sense.

Personally, cost is the number 1 factor for me. The Northern Irish economy is so bad that it could mean the entire island becoming worse off. It's not like sectarianism would disappear in a UI we could all just end up poorer with nothing in return. The subvention protects NI. That protection would be gone in a UI.

Given it was an aim of the IRA to destroy the economy in my opinion the onus is on SF to fix it. If they can improve it so that the cost was reduced to say only a 5% increase in income tax then i probably would vote for it.

What's the point in discussing this if you believe in the Pol Pot approach and nothing existed prior to unification 🤣?

In my opinion harmonization of SW and PS pay and pensions will cost significantly more than the potential GDP increase of 10% over 8 years.

Fitzgerald predicts a budget adjustments of 20/30bn to fund NI as it is without harmonization! Equivalent to budget adjustments seen during the worst of the last recession.

Why would I pretend?

At present, though SF might have the best polling numbers, two thirds of the country would not vote for them. So as long as the other two parties continue to cooperate with each other, only a coup or an extraordinary increase in popularity would bring SF to power.

And even if the did get there, it would be monumentally stupid to hold a referendum on unification, as a loss would send SF into a spiral of rejection and decline that it may never recover. Imagine the Irish people rejecting the core policy on which SF operates, the leadership would have to have to have an IQ in single digits to risk that without years of being in power and having a track record of improving the lives of the electorate, something they appear not to have in the North if things are as bad as some would have us believe.

What do you mean bothered with it? Obviously Sinn Fein took the most interest in the study, that's not surprising.

I realise now you are in denial and nothings going to change that as you want the idea of unification to be disastrous because you don't want it to happen, I'm not saying this study is the be all end all, I'm just saying the study is by far the best we have, it was a study taken by some of the greatest experts around the world from impartial countries like Germany, Canada and England, these people have experience in similar studies on the unification of Germany and Korea.

The study was reported on by all the major media outlets, from the Irish examiner to the Belfast Telegraph to the BBC, none of which felt any need to criticise it apart from a single article by the Irish times and a blogger who goes by the name of Slugger O'Toole.

As an insight into what is required to integrate unionism and unionists, this is the sort of article that republicans should be reflecting on.

"There is a deeply held view that some representatives who call loudest for transparency, inclusivity and truth are loathe to make the same call of former combatants with whom they share common purpose and aspirations."

There is an onus on republicanism to acknowledge the wrongs done by those it supported and nurtured. Unionists will not feel welcome in any united Ireland that votes in large measure for Sinn Fein, that is an unavoidable fact.

This is a chilling and well-researched account of the callous murder by the IRA of a young woman who was only trying to earn a bit of extra money for her family.

Later in the article, speaking about another murder of a young woman, Martin McGuinness, a hero to some posters, said "they brought it on themselves. The people in the Bogside and the Creggan didn't give a damn about Alice Purvis and the proof of that is that only 100 people turned up to her funeral".

Just imagine a mentality that judges people by the number who turn up to her funeral. Try and get yourself inside the head of someone like that, it is almost inhuman. Fair play to the 100 people who did turn up, who were brave enough to defy the PIRA within that terrorised community. The PIRA were not heroes, Sinn Fein are not nice cuddly blokes who could be your favourite uncle (in a number of cases they were the "uncle" that many young children feared coming into their bedroom at night).

@Kaiden Happy Mouthpiece just in relation to this part of your post:

"I am honestly very surprised by how many don't want anything to do with the North, I (maybe naively) thought it would be huge majority in favour. However I would say to those who don't want a UI because it will cost - when do you think it won't cost ? There will never be a point where it will be easy and cheap. To deny a UI now is to effectively say that you never want a UI, and Ireland really should be united. Do you not feel some sort of historical moment at this time ?"

Even if there were no financial cost, I'd be against a United Ireland TBH. It may have been a nice fairytale when my grandfather was sold the idea in his teens and joined up to "do his bit" and torch the Custom House but after a century of partition we have distinctly different cultures in the Republic and the North.

To be fair, in my experience, there's probably 70% of those in Northern Ireland who just want the same as those of us in the Republic: the chance to raise our children in peace and prosperity. The issue is the other 30%. I don't want religious extremists of any kind in our government. The hard liners on both sides of the divide in the North can't be reasoned with: they've drunk the kool-aid and like Harryd are only capable of repeating the rhetoric of the idiots they follow and turning to violence when they don't get their way. So, all apologies to the majority of NI residents but as long as a significant minority of your population are religious nutjobs, political extremists or violent thugs, the Republic will be far better off without you.

Maybe in time, as the bible bashing bigots die off and the memories of the crimes committed by both sides fade away, the headcases might become a small enough number that they wouldn't cause serious problems post unification and the issue could be revisited. Until then, any attempt to unify the countries will be a predictable, and no doubt bloody, mess.