Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

Weepsie · 28-01-2022 11:19pm

Can't imagine Leo visits mulhuddart much

bazermc · 30-01-2022 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118548245#Comment_118548245

Sure he doesn’t live in Dublin 15 anymore

he’s gone all trendy now in Dublin 8.

zell12 · 30-01-2022 10:38am

DailyMail - 2,200 comments!

30-01-2022 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553337#Comment_118553337

The Daily Mail though

magicbastarder · 30-01-2022 3:03pm

https://twitter.com/valerie_flynn/status/1487698039657619457?s=21

AndrewJRenko · 30-01-2022 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553337#Comment_118553337

2,200 drivers riled up on the road tomorrow

31-01-2022 1:17pm

Another incident, this time in Galway

https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/cyclist-hospitalised-with-serious-injuries-following-collision/

zell12 · 31-01-2022 7:26pm

Nicolas Roche has some opinions on the state of Ireland’s capital when it comes to safety for cyclists

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-hard-shoulder/nicolas-roche-on-the-trials-and-tribulations-of-cycling-in-dublin-city

zell12 · 31-01-2022 8:23pm

31-01-2022 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561403#Comment_118561403

I was listening to that today. Honestly he sounded like a twat of the highest order. I ended up switching to another station.

I'm paraphrasing but it was along the lines of

"I think bike lanes are dangerous because I can't cycle at 40km in them"

"The bollards protecting bike lanes are dangerous because I can't overtake someone slower".

"The cars go mental in the Netherlands if a cyclist uses the road". The cars mind, not the drivers, the cars

Etc etc etc. Between the two of them it was like cyclists should be thankful for what they have managed to get so far and the rest of Dublin streets can't have any bike infrastructure because cars.

MojoMaker · 01-02-2022 11:37am

What did you expect from Newstalk though?

Tombo2001 · 01-02-2022 11:39am

Can't walk on country roads anymore — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Interesting.

Podge_irl · 01-02-2022 1:52pm

"The bollards protecting bike lanes are dangerous because I can't overtake someone slower".

To be honest, I don't like segregated cycle lanes such as this for more or less this exact reason. But I also know that they make everyone safer, encourage women/children/older people to cycle and I know that I can't stand that drivers are incapable of being stuck behind a cyclist for a few seconds without losing their ****...and then I get over it.

Chips Lovell · 01-02-2022 2:39pm

I didn't listen to it and I wouldn't consider Nico Roche the authority on cycling in Dublin. But, by the sounds of it, he did seem to touch on the known issues with a lot of segregated infrastructure, which are:

It often leaves you with nowhere to go if you encounter a hazard such a broken glass. That means you've the choice of using a lane and hoping it's clear and trying to cut out between the bollards if it isn't, or forgoing it entirely. Overtaking is less important and is more a matter of convenience than safety.
Creation of segregated infrastructure serves to reinforce the (erroneous) perception that cyclists don't belong on shared spaces such as the road. This tends to have a self-perpetuating dynamic, i.e. the more hostility riders encounter, the less likely they are to use a road and the less frequently a cyclists are seen choosing the road, the more likely it is that motorists conclude they shouldn't be there.

This doesn't preclude deciding that, on balance, segregated infrastructure is a good thing. But it's disingenuous to suggest that it's some kind of silver bullet with no downsides.

magicbastarder · 01-02-2022 2:46pm

i think the main issue is that cycling in the average cycle lane in dublin is basically cycling in the gutter, and the bollard protected model enforces that.

Duckjob · 01-02-2022 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565121#Comment_118565121

I'm somewhere around halfway agreeing with your point 2.

As we often do, we can look to countries the Netherlands who currently are now actively removing cycle paths from some of their urban streets aand explicitly making those making the streets shared spaces, usually with cars as "guests".

However- NL has decades ago passed through the phase where we are now (where cycling is an "other group" well outside the normal mode of car driving) - in order to get to their current position where cycling is an everyday commonplace active among most of the population. You could say that the general culture among drivers there is a few decades much more matured that our own.

I think segregated paths everywhere (especially as they are currently being implemented) are an ugly solution, but a necessary one to simply get more people onto bikes, which ultimately will turn the tide of the culture towards a point where they are not necessary in many areas in the first place. Thats where they currently are in NL.

Apart from that, I think segregation is always going to be wise in certain circumstances to avoid unnecessary conflicts- For example- I was heading out of Dublin city towards Santry yesterday. The cycle path that takes one up past Griffith Ave and Collins Av is shite, but I don't mind being on it. Why? Because its uphill all the way and therefore my speed was slow anyway. I'm happy to pootle up the shared path instead of being on the road with frustrated taxis and buses behind me.

Chips Lovell · 01-02-2022 3:15pm

Isn't that a bit like saying that we need to repeat their mistakes ourselves before we're allowed to catch up?

On a broader level, I'd be wary of tacitly or inadvertently ceding the right of access to shared infrastructure because you run the risk that segregated infrastructure you're falling back on will never be funded or prioritised adequately.

Podge_irl · 01-02-2022 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565513#Comment_118565513

More like saying there are not necessarily short cuts on the journey. The single greatest thing you can do for cycling safety and to improve awareness of cycling and improve investment in cycling is to have more people cycling.

Duckjob · 01-02-2022 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565558#Comment_118565558

Exactly.

DCC could tomorrow put up signage all over the in the centre of Dublin to say these are now "bicycle streets" and cars are guests. Wouldnt make a fiddlers fart of difference though. Aggressive drivers would still dominate and bully any people on bikes out of their way, and only the the brave and foolhardy would cycle those streets - basically we would have exactly what we have now.

The sad fact is that for those sort of streets to work, Irish drivers need to have a substantially different/matured mindset from the one many have now. They can run every campaign under the sun telling people they should cycle, but in the short-term the only way forwards from our current position is to brute-force the safety element onto our roads.

if people don't feel safe, the population en masse will never get cycling. If people don't get cycling, then "cyclists" remain this "other group", which perpetuates motorist aggression, which perpetuates fear of cycling, which keeps people off bikes, and so we go around and around and never leave square one.

Macy0161 · 01-02-2022 5:03pm

Not just Dublin motorists - pretty sure in the above linked thread in Farming and Forestry, at least one person suggested that roads were built for cars. Transport equivalent of creationism, as if pedestrians, horses, bicycles don't predate the motor car.

Wildly Boaring · 01-02-2022 5:05pm

It's a one off, but, my missus hadn't been on a bike in 15 years.

They opened a new road with segregated bike path from here to the kids school.

Bikes 2 or 3 times a day now. And will now go on the road in other directions as she has the bike and helmet out and accessible.

Chips Lovell · 01-02-2022 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566102#Comment_118566102

In fairness, you're proposing a half-assed implementation and then declaring it won't work. You can redesign streets in a way that won't hinder movement of bikes and pedestrians but will throttle motor vehicle speeds and force them into moving at the same speeds as other road users.

tomasrojo · 01-02-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118562306#Comment_118562306

I haven't listened to it, but if he said anything like "The bollards protecting bike lanes are dangerous because I can't overtake someone slower", well, I don't flatter myself that I have anything like the skill or acceleration of a professional cyclist, but I can exit a cycle lane with bollards and re-enter it.

Duckjob · 01-02-2022 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566653#Comment_118566653

Not what I said. I'm not in favour of trying to make Dublin streets shared bike streets right now because as I said the mindset of the average Dublin driver is not ready for it yet.

I agree absolutely you CAN redesign streets in a smart way so that they self-regulate traffic and if we could wave a wand and make that all happen tomorrow it would be great but the fact is our current reality is not going to allow for that to happen right now. There's still far to much opposition and old style thinking in Ireland. So those "proper" full-on street redesign solutions are off the table for now and will be for time to come- until the tipping point of people calling for change becomes so loud that it becomes politically dangerous for our leaders not to throw their full support behind these schemes.

I'm saying that I believe the current solutions of sticking bollards at the sides of roads are an ugly stopgap solution. However, if they can entice a much wider slice of the general populace our of their cars and onto bikes then they will have achieved their goal and lead us on the next phase. With a much greater swathe of people cyciing, achieving upgrades to quality infra such as is commonplace now in NL will be a much easier step.

Tombo2001 · 02-02-2022 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567729#Comment_118567729

The bollards are part of the solution, but only part of it.

-If the bollards are too close to the pavement (i.e. the cycle path is too narrow)

-If the road surface on the cycle path is brutal (e.g. can you swerve to avoid a pothole, or do bollards stop you doing that).

-If the cycle paths arent located on routes that people want to use (there are gazillion kms of bike path out in Ballycoolin, but none on Dorset Street).

Then the bollards in themselves arent enough.

If anything there is a risk that they put in the bollards, people dont use them for above reasons - and then the narrative is "we built the bike path an nobody used it".

Tombo2001 · 02-02-2022 9:57am

On Nicolas Roche, its a pity really that none of the high profile cyclists in this country have come out strongly in favour of better infrastructure for cyclists, the way Chris Boardman does. Paul Kimmage in particular has a big platform but I've never seen him say a thing about this. I doubt there are many kids in Carrick on Suir today training the way Sean Kelly did when he was a kid, too much fast traffic on country roads.

02-02-2022 5:33pm

As part of the NI climate action bill and associated amendments, one to note is this

https://twitter.com/daithimckay/status/1488899167984533508?s=20&t=Jlcs5XCEFNC4dAfbMQ5qSA

Macy0161 · 02-02-2022 5:52pm

Looking forward to all the tourist greenways, rather than genuine active travel measures, in the North as well as in this State!

02-02-2022 6:44pm

In the ongoing saga of trying to get the action taken against dangerous passes, Gardai are now saying video evidence is no longer sufficient. They need to be there and see it with their own eyes before they'll do anything about it

.........what the actual F

Seriously, take a read of this article and tell me most wouldn't give up

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1488925283155693569?s=20&t=dE9QX-eCx16bpsA7L_AFxg

07Lapierre · 02-02-2022 10:52pm

Not really surprised. Nico has spent almost 20 years cycling on fully closed roads at 40+kph surrounded by other riders all doing the same. It must be a real shock to the system having to cycle on narrow streets In Dublin surrounded by motorists trying to kill you! :)

Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

Comments