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How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I seriously doubt we will have a new capital, it wouldn't make any sense, we might have a few new minor parties but the popular parties would remain the same for the foreseeable future anyway, we could change the flag if we wanted although there is certainly no obligation to do so, the flag we already have is perfect for a United Ireland, what many unionists don't know about the flag is that green represents Catholics, the orange represents protestants, and the white in the middle represents the peace between them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You think boards.ie is only for captain Harry the pilot like-minded people?

    Boards is a discussion forum, there is no requirement related to creed nor political affiliation.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Kaiden Happy Mouthpiece


    Its the future that swung it for me. We have no future in the UK except being the poorest region in a country thats going to slowly lose its world status. We will forever be an English blame hound to order around as they see fit, lorded over by a succesion of toffs. The UK is a failed state founded to serve an empire that no longer exists. We are simply very different to England.

    Better by far imo to be a bigger part of a forward looking modern country. Not saying it will be easy - but it will be worth it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, since you didn't provide the link to the article, I've no idea when it was written.. could easily be out of date, considering just how much has changed in Europe since covid came along.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why should the Republic give up it's current identity?

    It's like as if the Republic is supposed to be begging to be allowed to unify, all the while it also pays for unification...



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Kaiden Happy Mouthpiece


    fwiw I personally wouldnt expect ROI to give up major items like flag, name or anthem. There will undoubtedly be some change though. The minor example I always think of is the requirement that all primary teachers must speak Irish - imo that wouldnt be practical to force on thousands of teachers in NI who cant speak Irish. There will be other areas Im sure. Somewhere between 26+6 and a brand new country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,769 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Kosovo is an aspirant member and those so-called billions amount to around €110m per year. We won't get anything like that considering the basket case that is Kosovo.

    Even if we did, €100m a year is a drop in the ocean of funding required.

    What people need to realise is that even a drop of 15% in living standards in the South as a result of unification would still leave average living standards above the European average, so sympathy would be short supply, especially as we would have voted for it ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,769 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Oh dearie me.

    What's with all the Unionists on this thread?

    Are they not allowed a voice?

    As for those not admitting their Unionist backgrounds, I am a GAA-supporting Catholic Dub, but you probably have me down as a Unionist based on your peculiarly strange view of the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lolz. So, either we're a Partitionist, or a Unionist if we don't agree with Harryd. Which is worse, or are they the same in your eyes?

    Out of curiosity, what do you call someone who believes that we already have a Republic, our duty is to protect that Republic, and that NI is nowhere close to being ready for unification (socially/culturally/economically) without it dragging the Republic down? Is that still a partitionist or something different?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    • Complete new administration based on regions: Ulster, Leinster (minus greater Dublin), Dublin, Munster & Connacht. Regional assemblies with powers to raise tax and apply local legislation.
    • Get rid of current local authorities
    • Overarching state legislature, no Seanad. This body to rotate meetings around the five regions i.e. no capital per se with a state parliament.
    • New flag
    • New anthem
    • New constitution
    • English to be the official primary language of the state with Irish, Scots, Polish etc as secondary languages
    • New spirit of co-operation and respect for all traditions on the island.

    That'll do for starters and by the way, 80% of the electorate both sides of the border to be in favour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I have no problem with the unionists whatsoever, I said I have a problem with the unionists who are masquerading as people from the Republic in their pathetic attempts to drain support for unification, it's obvious really what's going on if you read the whole thread.

    They have even been arguing that a study I linked on Unification, a study taken by some of the greatest experts from around the world, a study that has received widespread international praise, they are claiming the study is little more than a load of crap, they're claiming this with no evidence apart from their own economic expertise.


    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Max001


    You're talking about a federal system and what you've outlined has a lot of merit.

    Starting from a clean sheet of paper, but borrowing from best practice elsewhere sounds like a plan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Max001


    The UK needs better leadership. To become what it has the potential to be. Don't forget. It's still the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world. It has a stable system of government. It has a largely stable climate. It attracts a lot of inward investment. English is the international language of business, trade and travel. Its one of only five nuclear armed states in the Nuclear NPT. It has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. And so on. What is holding it back is extremely poor leadership. We've had a particularly bad run of late. Bliar (intentional spelling), Brown, Cameron & Boris. A complete f**king disaster. All of them. I agree. The English are hard to take at times. If we could sweep away all the privileges of class and work towards a more meritocratic system, it would go a long way to improving our economic growth.

    Don't forget. At the close of World War 2, the UK was bankrupt and exhausted by six years of total war. We got no Marshall Aid and the b**tard Americans refused to write off our debt, which we had to keep repaying until very recently. The Americans did everything they could, when they became more interventionist following the establishment of the Monroe Doctrine, to undermine the Empire. Personally, I think the UK did extremely well, to transform itself into a modern economy only a couple of decades after WWII, considering all the handicaps. We needed oil to do it. But that's the luck of the draw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Why not a new Capital? I doubt that Belfast would like Dublin to call all the shots. The flag in theory represents both sides but over the years has come to solely represent the Irish Republic. How about this?




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Has to be the true capital of Ireland, g’on Cork.

    I’m not so sure St George’s Cross on an Irish flag will go down well with the Shinners.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    True, I would be more than happy to make Belfast the Capital as a gesture to the Unionists and also the change the flag, I think changing the flag would be a good way of welcoming the Unionists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    a change to Belfast wouldnt bother me either, and the flag defintley has to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    The flag of Ulster came about when Walter de Burgh, 1st Earl of Ulster became earl of the Earldom of Ulster in 1264. He merged the de Burgh family heraldry, which was a red cross on a yellow background with that of the Red Hand of Ulster of the Irish over-kingdom of Ulaid, which the earldom encompassed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I'm sure we would work something out, maybe meet somewhere in the middle.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Both would bother me. Neither the flag or the capital of the Republic should be changed. I have ancestors who fought for our independence, and I won't stand for giving up what they fought for. Bugger that.

    Honestly, I will oppose any such attempts to change the identity of the Republic.

    This is not the Republic joining NI, with cap in hand. This is NI joining the Republic. If it was to happen at all... which I seriously doubt. NI is not ready for unification. Let them sort out their own problems first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Fair enough but you seem to be forgetting that your ancestors also fought to free all of this country, not just 26 counties, they fought for all the men, women and children of this country.

    Judging by your posting history on this thread you seem to be more on in favour of the current partition than unification, you seem to express strong doubt and indifference to an independent Ireland, which I'm sure your ancestors would have cared far more about than trivial things like flags and where the capital is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    i think when it comes to it, the majority of citizens in republic would vote against unification.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Well then you're deluded, every party in the Republic say they support unification and all polls say the people do too, it would receive next to no opposition here in the Republic, next to one would be arguing against it and once we got to genuine debate about a future referendum then a yes vote would get overwhelming votes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Harry, there was an Ipsos poll done at the end of 2021, the results support your view that there is significant support from the ROI public when asked if they would like to see unification. But tellingly, the same poll showed that people are also unwilling to bear the financial burden that could come with unity, with 79% saying they would “not accept” higher taxes, while another 79% said they were opposed if it meant less money to spend on public services.

    So unless unification comes free of charge, a huge majority are not interested in the prospect of a united Ireland. You are deluded if you think the ROI electorate will prioritise a romantic vision of a united Ireland over cash in their pocket, that is crystal clear from the poll results.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    That's rubbish, phrase any question with the term "would you pay more taxes" then you are going to get a different answer completely. Ask someone a question saying "would you be in favour of stopping world hunger", I'm sure they would all say yes. Ask them again saying "would you be in favour of stopping world hunger if it meant paying more taxes" then you will get a different answer completely. Asking someone a question saying would they pay more taxes while not giving them any idea in how much tax and not engaging in even a slight discussion whatsoever then that question holds no merit.

    Nobody would oppose a United Ireland, all the parties are in favour of it, it would receive no opposition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    So the poll should ask if you support unification, but not ask if you are willing to pay for the cost of unification?

    Surely you understand that before voting on unification, the people of ROI will be asking “How are we going to pay for this/will I have to pay?”

    79% of those polled said they will be opposed to unification if it means that it will cost them. It is pretty clear where their priorities lie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    So how does that work then, if there was a referendum planned and you asked them if they would vote for it I'm certain they would say yes, it's obvious we would have to pay slightly more taxes after unification.

    What about all the polls done during the troubles which all showed at least 80 percent of people wanting unification, They never asked them would they vote for it if they had to pay more taxes, but it would have been obvious back in those days of the 70s, 80s and 90s that they would have had to pay more taxes.

    If you ask any question in a poll focusing on a small aspect of what the question actually means then that would unfairly influence the answer, the question is automatically focusing on a negative, when there are numerous different factors.

    The question is asking them would they pay more taxes, people could automatically assume this to mean an extravagant amount of taxes that could destroy their livelihoods, an answer to a question like that in no way effects how they would vote in a referendum.

    The first question, simply asking people a straight question do they want unification showed over 70% of people saying yes, this figure is far more accurate in how people would vote for a referendum.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Fair enough but you seem to be forgetting that your ancestors also fought to free all of this country, not just 26 counties, they fought for all the men, women and children of this country.

    My ancestors fought in the War of Independence, but the also fought in the Civil war, being pro-Treaty (although I have other family connections who were anti-treaty). They understood that the treaty was the best opportunity for an independent Irish State... and that's what they fought for in the end. Not this delusional idea that it would be better to fight forever until the whole Island was united. I can remember both my grandfathers talking about it, and with regret, acknowledging that they got the best available outcome in the end. God knows, NI isn't close to being united with the rest of Ireland considering the range of divisions that exist.

    Judging by your posting history on this thread you seem to be more on in favour of the current partition than unification, you seem to express strong doubt and indifference to an independent Ireland, which I'm sure your ancestors would have cared far more about than trivial things like flags and where the capital is.

    You really have little idea what my ancestors wanted, just as you're taking a particular slant on my posts to the thread. I would like to see unification happen. However. I do not like the price that is involved.

    Yeah, I know your argument from before, but I'm not even close to being convinced that your study was accurate, and simple common sense about the economic state of NI, suggests that it would require serious investment over an extended period of time before coming in line with the rest of Europe. Likely it would remain like West Galway (or other poor regions), needing supplements to remain afloat (but needing far more from the State). Then, there are the range of social problems due to it being so fragmented, with so many different interests all of which connect with strong emotions. Too much violence, and bitterness for them to truly move on, and put it all behind themselves. At least for this generation anyway.

    I do want a united Ireland, but I don't want to see the Republic dragged into the **** because of it. The Irish economy is not as impressive as many seem to want to make it out to be. Money doesn't magically appear.. and the Irish economy is far too reliant on various industries which are vulnerable to changes in the European or World markets... which is exasperated due to the America, which has it's own serious problems. There are already definite problems with a wide range of Irish services (Health, in particular).. along with other social issues that should be resolved, but there simply isn't the revenue to deal with them effectively (even during the boom times), and so, they're pushed further back, worsening as they go. The unification with NI could easily drain revenue away from these services, drastically decreasing what is available to Irish people.... and for what?

    I've seen the bile that tends to come out on threads relating to Northern Ireland, Unionists, the IRA, or whatever. Virtually every thread I've seen on boards has ended up in the gutter, with a wide range of bitching and moaning.. and that's without much involvement by Royalists, or Unionists. Then there's the manner that politics occurs in the North, and that's not going to magically disappear if unification happens. I have friends who live in the North, have spent time with then, and listened to their arguments over politics and/or history, and it's horrible. No. No. No. We don't need that **** here, and it's not going to end, just because we're supposedly united. If anything, unification is likely to increase the friction between groups.

    No. There are still far too many drawbacks to unification for my taste. When those detractors have been resolved, then, I'll happily support a United Ireland... but I'm not going to sacrifice the economic and social stability of this country, for the sake of some romantic notion that we should be one Island. So, yeah.. I'll oppose a United Ireland until it makes sense to do it.. and when it benefits both states.



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