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Energy infrastructure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    presumably "heat pumps and insulation" were a single item.

    Plenty of houses cannot be retrofitted to good enough standard to suit heat pumps - you would basically have to tear down and rebuild. And as for insulation, plenty of older houses neither have the room for internal insulation, nor do they have a cavity suitable to fill.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "H1 2020 vs H1 2021 in Germany"

    Now do 1990 to 2021 to see long term trends:

    As you can see, coal + lignite has dropped significantly since 1990, in fact by half!

    Fossil fuels overall down about 30%

    And of course we can see the massive rise in renewables.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer if the Germans had shutdown more of their coal plants, before the Nuclear plants. But the above graph clearly shows that they aren't replacing Nuclear with coal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    One with metre thick stone walls and no prospect of retrofitting an insulated slab. I have such a beast. This would be why historic buildings are specifically excluded from needing a BER cert. It's not an answer to be a smart arse and say it's 'technically' possible, it has to be realistically affordable by someone who hasn't got taxpayers funds to spend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    Shannon LNG would not offer that flexibility, because it would be owned and operated by New Fortress Energy so it would only be used to import their gas, all of which is fracked in the U.S.

    Just because importing fracked gas is legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I think Eamonn Ryan was right to urge An Bord Pleanála to reject Shannon LNG, and I am not partial to the green party or any political party at all. Fracked gas contributes to the climate crisis more than coal or non-fracked gas, so it's a particularly bad fossil fuel to use. I am of course aware that fossil fuel usage can't stop right now, but there are less harmful fossil fuels that can be used instead of fracked gas, so I don't see why it's okay for Ireland to support fracking(which allowing Shannon LNG would). I would even say that fracking should be completely banned worldwide, as soon as possible, because of the damage it does.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    BnM going head first into solar with 2.6k acre solar farm planned. Looks like it'll be well over 1GW, possibly 1.5




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,711 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    You must be looking at a different graph cos according to that there has been very little reduction in lignite use(or NG for that matter).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    German lignite usage will soon be coming to an end

    The coal exit law serves to spell out in detail the step-by-step reduction and end of electricity production using coal in Germany. It follows the coal exit commission's recommendations from 2019 and states how much coal power generation capacity will remain in the German power market at future dates. The exit will happen in three stages:


    15 gigawatt (GW) hard coal and 15 GW lignite capacity are left by the end of 2022 (from 22.8 GW hard coal and 21.1 GW lignite in 2019)


    8 GW hard coal and about 9 GW lignite are to remain by 2030


    By the end of 2038 at the latest, there will be no coal power capacities left as the phase-out is completed


    Three reviews in 2026, 2029 and 2032 are scheduled to decide whether the phase-out can already be completed by 2035




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You were sticking your under bridge dweller oar into the farming CO2 bollox thread very recently, showering links about how bogs sequester lots of CO2 and how we had to rehabilitate them and stop their further abuse and destruction, and here you are in your little green pleated cheerleader skirt, waving your pompoms in joy at 2,666 acres of bog being put uner the shade of solar panels.

    Bog plants sequester carbon using photosynthesis. Do I need to draw a picture?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No coal, no lignite, no nuclear - no problems there that I can see. /s



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    How much of that 1GW capacity will actually generate something throughout the year?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The capacity is meaningless in this couuntry. Only 15% of the hours in a year are direct sunshine, and of that, only the ones in summer would give you capacity level delivery. 70% of Irish daylight hours are cloud covered, which means in summer, you only get 20% of the rated output. In winter it's even less. So the real world capacity assuming an 18% annualized average cloud generation - I make it an average of 115 Kw per hour over a year if it's really 540 MW capacity, as that link suggests.

    What?

    "As a general guide, one megawatt (MW) of Solar PV panels will typically require a net area of 2 hectares...approximately 1,079 hectares"

    I make that about 540 MW. How do you get 1-1.5 GW?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Cnocbuí has a point here, no one also ever tried to stop the mass planting in bogs, still ongoing.


    90% plus of our bogs have been destroyed by planting.


    Woodland, including the mono culture plantations are very poor sequesters of carbon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip


    For a bog-based solar farm, will there be foundations and access roads needed? Similar to those for a wind farm but on a smaller scale.

    I would expect that all panels need to be accessible by some sort of vehicle for maintenance ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    For every 1GW of theoretical capacity in this country, how much is actually achieved as an average across the year?

    Is this recorded data available from any of the commercial solar farms already in the country?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Errr... you thinking cutting something in half is "very little reduction" !

    Coal + Lignite power generation: 1990: 310 TWh 2021: 162 TWh a fall of 48%

    Natural Gas is up on 1990, but the combination of coal + lignite + ng is down versus 2021

    Coal + Lignite + Gas power generation: 1990: 350 TWh 2021: 251 TWh a fall of 28%

    And note, the above figures don't take into account the rise in power generation during that period. So as a percentage of power generation, the drop would be even greater.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    apparently silts woodland sequesters more carbon then native broadleaf:


    As an aside (and it may not be the thread for it, so mods move if necessary) has anyone seen the documentary kiss the ground?

    It’s all about healthy soul and the amount of carbon that can be sequestered by healthy non tilled/ploughed soil. Very interesting.

    Probably the best technology for taking legacy CO2 out of the air is the natural soil sequestering cycle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I calculate it at 42.6% of stated capacity if you only allow for daylight hours in a year, but only 21.3% if you are comparing the capacity to a reliable 24/7 source like gas, coal or nukes, given they generate nothing at night.

    That's assuming a generous 100% of capacity during sunlight hours - which implies tracking - and 18% for cloudy hours - based on Boadsie solar production figures.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    With the feed in tariff being introduced I'd say we're going to see a lot more of these types of solar installations




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Good thing BnM only used hover tractors and hover trains and reinstated the bog surface to it's original pristine condition. :rolleyes:

    For wind you need a good strong base to stand up to lots of force on the other end of a 100m lever. Panels can be manhandled.

    The substation would be a low building, presumably near the edge of bog closest to the nearest grid connection so it would need some infrastructure. But so would substations anywhere else.

    500KW/hectare. So about 250 tonnes of avoided carbon emissions a year per hectare compared to 10 tonnes sequestered by a bog without panels. (1000 hours sunshine * 500gCO2/KWh)

    Panels are angled to catch the sun and spaced apart so they don't shade each other. So still lots of light reaching the ground. Can still have grass and sheeps under them if you stick them in fields. You could work back from solar irradiation and panel efficiency to work out the effective coverage and hence how much the bog can still sequester with the panels in place. (also only half the bog will be used)

    The main issue with bogs is to not release carbon stored over thousands of years in a short time which is the problem with draining peaty grasslands. Giving them an economic use is perhaps the best way.


    Board Na Móna will be changing the usage of 50,000 hectares by 2030. If all of that went to panels there'd be 25GW installed on what is now industrial wasteland. And that's less than half of the land BnM has.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Solar means you are saving gas when the sun shines. An excess of solar means you are saving gas on dull days too. Gas that can be used on dark calm winter nights. Solar also means you aren't going to have large generating units fall off the grid, unless there's a solar eclipse like the one where the German grid loss 15GW and kept going because they planned for it since they are predictable.

    2030 target is 80% reduction. So we can use the existing gas infrastructure to keep the lights on till then if needed while transitioning to smart grid / storage / interconnection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Sunshine comprises 15% of the hours in a year, so you have to be joking. Solar falls off the grid everytime clouds blow in. Storage doesn't exist - no country has grid scale long term hydrogen storage, despite your repeated and erroneous attempts at suggesting the technology is there and that existing infrastructure for NG will work for H2. Interconnectors are not a reliable plank in a nations energy infrastructure due their susceptibility to politics and external technical disruptions. If the other end of the interconnector is having it's own energy shortgae, there won't be any coming from there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gas and nuke power have been thrown a lifeline for the medium term.

    But its not a clear cut win for them.

    they only receive the sustainable label (and therefore qualify for EU green funding) for gas projects approved by 2030 and nuke projects by 2045. Looks like after that it won't apply.

    Also there are a number of states lining up to challenge this in court, Austria & Luxembourg being the first 2 so far but there may be more



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Anti nuke countries in Europe are now arguing with the IPCC and IEA and UN. It would be hard to make up this nonsense.

    The IPCC have caused a global panic about CO2 because countries trust it, but the same organisation is considered to by untrustworthy in it's pro-nuclear views.

    "Global climate objectives fall short without nuclear power in the mix: UNECE

    The urgent need to reduce emissions and slow global heating, should involve the roll-out of more nuclear power stations, regional UN energy experts argued in a new briefing on Wednesday.

    ...

    The UNECE document also highlighted a 2018 report by the IPCC which sees demand for nuclear generation increase six times by 2050 with the technology providing 25% of global electricity."

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1097572


    On the one hand, Greens believe the IPCC pronouncements, hook line and sinker, yet when the same supposedly authoratative body and it's UN siblings state nuclear needs to be included in the effort to reduce greenhouse gases, they no longer believe what is being said. Logic was never a strong point with greens.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You have a strange obsession with twisting facts to suit a narrative. Its a really weird basis for an argument for anything



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    For quick calculations I use 1,000 hours which is just 11.4%

    Storage exists. Here's a 10 year old storage facility on a 15 million cubic meter per day, 545Km pipeline that serves more than 50 refineries and chemical plants from Sweeny, Texas, to Lake Charles, Louisiana. Capacity is billions and billions as Carl Sagan would say ie. 2.5Bcsf (6,000 MT) or whatever than means in real units.

    Natural gas contains hydrogen. And still retains it's own partial pressure so technically every gas field ever proves that grid level storage is workable.

    A supporter of nuclear saying interconnectors are susceptible to politics and external disruptions ? Interconnectors generally aren't affected by cooling water issues like floods, freezing, high temperature and jellyfish etc. I'm tired of explaining why I consider Nuclear to be only 75% dependable even if you have large fleets. And only capable of providing baseload which is 50% of peak power unless you massively interconnect to the neighbours.

    Any supporter of nuclear needs to explain where the other 50% of peak demand is coming from.

    As for politics England is a nett importer of electricity and we'll have 4 interconnectors soon going to Scotland, Wales and France. (You could twist it to say we'll be exporting French nuclear energy to England by the back door because they are incapable of producing it themselves :pac: )

    Also Ergrid own SONI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Which fact was it and explain how it was twisted - with evidence.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Read your own post and the article you linked to, its literally all in there. You take X and say that X means Y.

    Its bizarre



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




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