Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

What is normal practice for solicitor in providing information to a client?

  • 25-01-2022 6:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1


    Can anyone help with this. I am currently selling a property and my solicitor is not being very helpful. They have previously handled the probate in the same matter and were quite unhelpful with this also. I have asked them to provide me with a list of outstanding queries relating to the sale. I was point blank refused this. I asked to be copied on correspondence and this was point blank refused also. They tell me basically its not how they do things. Now I have got a letter about a change to my fees which tells me I will be charged 50euro for each copy correspondence. This letter goes on to tell me if I give any further instructions I am agreeing to this ( and possibly other things, I dont quite understand it). I should add the solicitor was quite angry with me on the phone when I asked for the information. Im flabbergasted, and really dont know what to do. I would love to just start again with another solicitor and do a bit of research before choosing them, but this isnt really an option. The letter tells me fees of 2000euro for conveyancing have applied. Id be very grateful for any advice on how to move forward and whether any of this sounds standard or normal.



Best Answer

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    I would suggest the following:

    • The reason they won't share a list of open queries is that they don't have one.
    • The reason they won't copy you on correspondence is that there's none happening.
    • The solicitor got angry as their mismanagement has been questioned
    • They're now doubling down and bullying you with the threat of additional fees if you dare to question them again.

    In short, completely unprofessional, particularly from someone working for you, where trust and transparency are absolute fundamentals. I'm not sure of your potential routes to make a complaint, but I'd be paying fees to date, not a penny more, get all documentation back, and take your business elsewhere. Once the sale goes though, tell everyone who'll listen why you moved.



Answers

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Why did you instruct a solicitor you are not happy with? Go to another solicitor and get your work done by the new solicitor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,622 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    OP, can you elaborate on this...

    I have asked them to provide me with a list of outstanding queries relating to the sale.

    Is that a list of queries from you to the solicitor - which are outstanding? Or queries from third parties?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    I would suspect pre-contract enquiries raised by the purchaser’s solicitor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    "They have previously handled the probate in the same matter and were quite unhelpful with this also."

    Stop giving them business. There are loads of great solicitors.

    My general advice:

    1. Don't pick the cheapest, even for a "simple" job.
    2. Don't pick your family solicitor
    3. Don't use the same flipping guy to sell a place that he just probated. To me that's a conflict of interest, as any issues with title or deeds (which should have been sorted at probate) will not be raised at sale.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If there's an issue with title deeds, it will be raised by the purchaser's solicitor. That's his job.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    In the sale of a property, once contracts have been signed the role of the vendor's solicitor is basically reactive. He responds to issues raised by the purchaser's solicitor, and he sorts out anything that is causing them a problem (if it is something he can sort out). He only becomes proactive if the purchaser is being dilatory, in which case his role is to press them to complete the transaction, and to advise his own client on the options available if the purchaser will not complete.

    He could report to his client about the various queries received from, and issues raised by, the purchaser, and then he could spend more time dealing with the client's inevitable questions about what these mean and whether they matter. This would take up a great deal of time and add absolutely nothing to the completion of the transaction. The client won't want to pay for it and, if the solicitor has quoted a fee for the transaction, they won't want to spend time on it for which they are not being paid. So it doesn't normally happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The o/p sounds like the client from hell. She is likely to be in her early 30s and probably can't get any other solicitor to do the work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    I fully appreciated where you're coming from. In my own job, I could spend my entire day documenting my work to the nth degree, updating open actions lists, etc, and getting nothing done as a result. But to be fair, I don't think the OP is looking for a formal report at every stage of the process. An outright refusal to give any information whatsoever about the process seems very unprofessional, as does getting angry with the OP.

    Not being smart, but are you saying that keeping the client informed (to a basic level) of how things are proceeding is not something which would be costed for or usually done?

    What has the OP likely being got to do with anything? Or in her early 30's? A client from hell is a big leap based on a single post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The o/ps attitude and expectations can easily be judged from a single post. She probably has that poor solicitor driven mad with phone calls looking for progress reports and copies of documents. She is old enough to be assertive but not old enough to know how the world works. The fact that she has only posted once and not returned says a lot.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    As has been alluded to by others, there may well be more to this, but in general terms; If the solicitor didn’t allow for the cost of dictating a brief note to his own client as to the progress of a sale which appears to be dragging on, I would suggest he most certainly underpriced it.

    It would be common practice to forward a copy of any materially relevant correspondence from the purchasers solicitor together with a brief note as to how he intended to deal with whatever had been raised. You would typically be talking about a couple of letters and five minutes dictation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The client doesn't want a "brief note"; she wants a list of outstanding queries. And it's a dead certainty that, if the client gets a list of outstanding queries, they will come back with a list of queries of their own - What is this one about? Why does that one matter? I have never heard of a "requisition on title"; can you explain to me what it is?

    None of this adds any value or efficiency to the conveyancing process; most clients don't want it and for that reason it's not priced in. I think what you price in is the cost of managing the client's expectations - the vendors have raised some queries; I am dealing with them; to do this I need X from you; based on experience I reckon the queries can be dealt with satisfactorily; with a fair following wind we might hope to complete the sale in X time; if anything arises that changes this I'll let you know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Is this common practice? I can't say I ever experienced it. unless there is a significant delay correspondence from the purchasers solicitor is of no relevance to me. If I wanted a copy of all correspondence I would expect to pay for same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You are talking about materially relevant, the o/p wants a complete list. there would be few , if any, which would require input from the client.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Well the complete list might be quite simply captured in some of the initial correspondence from the purchasers solicitor, which I would probably have forwarded at the time.

    There is a balance to be struck, if the client is seeking a level of engagement which is above and beyond normal, well then they will need to be prepared to pay for it, but in general terms it is reasonable for a client to have an understanding of what is going on.

    There are no winners when relationships break down like this. From the solicitors perspective, there is his reputation to consider, and how this lady may potentially damage it if she feels aggrieved. She make make a complaint to the LSRA, which even if unfounded will need to be responded to to. She may prove difficult to extract the fees from etc.

    Why not just give her what she is looking for and move on. She could likely make a Data Subject Access Request for quite a bit of it in any case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    That is not how the real world works. The o/p is selling a house. She does not need a blow by blow account. Solicitors are not worried about being bad mouthed by a pest. It works both ways. If she bad mouths her solicitor she may find it difficult to get another solicitor in the future. She went to a solicitor she had previous dealings with, wasn't happy and yet went back to the same solicitor. You can change solicitors but not a solicitor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    In the real world, there have been many examples of how aggrieved individuals have created a world of hassle for often times entirely innocent solicitors. Most will wish to conclude the matter as simply as possibly and move on - avoiding the client in future if necessary.

    In fairness, there is no suggestion here of the client seeking a blow by blow account, merely a list of outstanding queries from the purchaser’s solicitor. You are taking inferences!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    they asked to be copied on all correspondence. this is not normal and the solicitor is right to charge for it if the client insists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Granted, although it would be common in other sectors, is not an outlandish request, and with the use of email there is little additional work effort involved. The solicitor may have other legitimate reasons why they may not wish to engage in this practice - but cost is a pretty minor factor regardless.

    There is a breakdown in the relationship here and that’s the height of it.

    As I have pointed out, it is probable that she is entitled to copies of much of these records FOC under data protection legislation anyway. It is going to be a lot easier to give her what she is looking for than have to be dealing with that. Copy the documents, complete the job, get paid, and choose your clients more carefully in future if necessary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    we will have to agree to disagree. Expected to be copied on all correspondence for no additional cost is being unreasonable.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    What costs are incurred by CC'ing the client on an email?

    Or is it case of supply and demand? The client wants it, so they can pay for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,282 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What happens when the client gets CC'd on the email?

    Each incoming CC results in two MORE follow up queries from the client.

    It's not a spectator sport. Focus on the end result, getting the sale finalised. Focus on what needs to happen to get the sale finalised, either by the client or the solicitor.

    If you want to change horses to a new solicitor mid-stream, you're probably going to be paying for most of the work to be done twice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    That's a fairly clear slippery slope fallacy. Follow up questions are a different problem to the OP asking for a status update, and getting a borderline abusive response form their solicitor.

    As I said earlier, I understand the solicitors point of view to an extent, but it's no reason to point blank refuse to engage, or get angry with the OP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The o/p asked for a list of outstanding queries. That is not a simple copy of emails. The outstanding queries have to be abstracted from the resolved queries. When the o/p gets such a list, if ever, presumably there will be queries by the o/p about the unresolved queries. Life is too short.



Advertisement