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Microsoft buys Activision-Blizzard

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    There's more that can result from this than just allowing or blocking the merger.

    It's not just the game/Xbox side of MS that's going to be investigated, it's all aspects that tie into this potentially larger Xbox division.

    They can force additional order provisions on MS and allow the merger, block the deal outright, or even block the deal and still impose order provisions on MS.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Mod note: Please keep the conversation civil folks, no need to make things personal.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If the outcome of this investigation is that they're not allowed be exclusive and it puts an end to this exclusivity console wars nonsense then I'll be a happy gamer.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I'd have been more surprised if it wasn't reviewed. This will all have been factored in already by both Microsoft and Activision, I doubt anyone is surprised on either side.

    I think it's unlikely to be blocked. This is nothing like Nvidia and ARM.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    It won't, it will either be allowed go ahead or they will be forced to become two separate entities again.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Microsoft's stated goal has always been to make games available on all platforms, which I guess means they're at least on paper open to GamePass on PlayStation. If they only released games on their own system, I might say there's a stronger anti competition case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    But I would say that actually works against them, as it means they're purposefully trying to control part of the supply of games in order to try force their competitor to allow Gamepass on Playstation.

    Probably a bad example, but if McDonalds bought companies that supplied Burger King in order to affect Burger King or make them offer McDonalds products in their stores, that would be an issue.

    If Microsoft are taking control of COD which is regularly the best-selling game on Playstation and then saying "We'll let you have COD on Playstation but only through you allowing Gamepass on Playstation", that could be one of the issues the FTC are investigating.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's actually a good example! Yeah, I see your point, but aren't Sony denying Xbox players the right to play The Last of Us on Xbox? Is that anti competition? Where do you draw the line?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The issue is more likely to come from COD's existing and historical popularity on Playstation and the money that Sony make from that, which has now been taken away. Whereas The Last Of Us was made by a Sony-owned company, for Sony. It was never on Xbox to begin with, nor did Naughty Dog ever make any games for Xbox. Similarly, Insomniac made a few games for Xbox but were also mostly a Sony studio.

    Exclusives aren't an issue by themselves, nor are companies acquiring studios. But when an acquisition will likely have a huge effect like in this case, then all facets of the deal need to be reviewed. Given the money Sony makes on sales of COD plus all DLCs, Microtransactions etc, plus how many gamers would buy consoles almost just to play COD given its fanbase (and it's probably fair enough to add in Overwatch too given how popular that game was and sales of lootboxes), then it has a much bigger effect than the likes of The Last Of Us (and Naughty Dog almost completely just made games for Playstation before being acquired, and made TLOU specifically for PS).



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Microsoft saying they'll only allow COD on Playstation if Sony accept Gamepass too would be fine. That wouldn't be anti-trust.

    If you can still buy COD outright for €80 on Playstation via the PS Store then absolutely nothing changes for Sony's customers or consumers at large. Sony will also continue to get their cut of the sale, exactly the same as today.

    I do not see an angle in this that will see the deal blocked.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I'm not so sure it would be fine, or at the very least I can see why they're reviewing it. Buying COD and taking it off Playstation, given that it's the best selling game on PS most years with Sony getting about 30% of sales, is potentially a huge financial loss to Sony and makes Playstation a less attractive puchase for COD players. Saying they can have COD but only if they allow Gamepass on Playstation as well (bearing in mind COD will be available on Gamepass meaning if Gamepass was on PS most gamers would get it through their Gamepass sub rather than buying it from the PS Store) could be seen as anti-competitive.

    Again, from an antitrust point of view, it could be seen as MS making this move to damage their competitor and force Sony to let Gamepass on their system, which as many here have also stated is Microsoft's ultimate goal.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It's not anti-competitive to give customers more choice. You would still be able to buy COD on Playstation without Microsoft being involved at all. But consumers would have the choice to not be locked in to the Sony store like they are today.

    Ultimately Sony are against Gamepass on Playstation for the same reason Apple are fighting so hard to prevent anyone being able to buy anything outside of their walled garden on iOS.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Part of what antitrust laws are designed for though is to prevent the risk of monopolies. While Gamepass on PlayStation might offer consumers more choice, there could be a risk that Microsoft go too far ahead in terms of streaming/subscription for gaming that Sony then can't catch up or nor can anyone else. And if Microsoft are then so far ahead of everyone else, they can charge what they want or do whatever they want and they'll still have the market sewn up, which is ultimately bad for consumers.

    I'm speaking in hypotheticals and extremes of course, I'm just saying it's a complicated situation and the FTC have elected to review it to determine the likelihood of such hypothetical and extremes, because that's their role particularly given the size and knock-on effect of this acquisition, as well as it coming after the Zenimax acquisition. I think it's unlikely anything will stop the deal going ahead as planned.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Penn has basically summed it up perfectly.

    MS are very, very familiar with the regulators and their powers, and they'll want to avoid the stupid stuff that they were forced to do with the likes of Windows. Who remembers the N version of Windows 7? Or the browser choice pop up that came up on first install?

    In fact, the browser choice restriction actually highlights how MS deal with regulators these days, which is a sea change from how they dealt with them back in the day. While that restriction was in place, there was a couple of months were the popup didn't show up, just a bug. Rather than obfuscate, or try to deny what had happen, MS was totally transparent about it, which resulted in the EU lowering the fine. Still about €700 million, so MS are fundamentally aware that it's better not to raise the regulators ire in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,617 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Based on this bit

    The Bureau of Competition is committed to preventing mergers and acquisitions that are likely to reduce competition and lead to higher prices, lower quality goods or services, or less innovation.

    I can't see how this merger would be stopped.

    Rather than reducing competition it is increasing it (Sony is hammering MS in sales numbers, this will make MS more competitive).

    Rather than higher prices it will be on GamePass, thus arguably lower and MS sales prices have in general been lower iirc.

    Rather than lower quality goods I would think MS might give more time or look to squeeze less than AB did, so hopefully higher quality.

    Less innovation? More likely to entice Sony to create its own FPS (beyond Call of Duty and Overwatch what could be argued over from a console competiton point of view), or open the space for another FPS to hit it big on PS5/6/7 so a new entrant with new innovations.

    I do wish GamePass would see a general end to exclusivity - even if just for games that are not historically MS first party titles. For me, I would like to see Call of Duty on GamePass day 1 every year (or whatever schedule) but still be purchasable on Playstation. Same as with the Sony/Bungie purchase where they have already said Bungie games will remain multiplat - have those games day 1 on Project Spartacus but purchasable elsewhere. I wouldn't argue for Halo or God of War to be multiplat - but Call of Duty, Overwatch, Destiny etc - these are games I think should remain mlti-plat but use availability for 'free' on the subscription service as a 'come to our console' driver.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    It's Gamepass where I would see this being an issue. In terms of console sales there's good competition between all three with sony being ahead of MS and Nintendo ahead of Sony again but also kind of in a different market.

    This acquisition though could make it very difficult for other game streaming platforms to compete with MS. I mean they don't just have to keep CoD and warzone away from Sony, they could effectively pull all ActiBlizz games from the likes of Nvidia and the likes putting Gamepass in a place where upstarts just can't compete and get a foot in the door.

    And while Gamepass is great value now, how long will that last considering Gamepass is an obvious loss leader and if there's no meaningful competition that can compete with their content.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Exactly. They're pulling from the overall Microsoft bank account, but eventually the bill comes due. They need to earn back the 75bn+ they've spent on ActiBlizz & Zenimax, not to mention the money they pay out for deals to have third party games on Gamepass.

    If they start to become the only true streaming service and so far ahead of anyone else, the costs start to go to the consumers to pay back, as well as offering lower deals to third parties because they're really the only show in town.

    Again, I'm not sure if the FTC investigation will stall or change the deal in any way as I'm sure MS lawyers have looked into it as much as possible in that regard, but the more studios and the bigger the studios MS start acquiring, the more the FTC might decide to try clamp down on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I can't see any reason for this deal to be blocked if you're looking at the current and future market share. But the fact that it is being reviewed is a good thing - it serves as a notice that MS cannot expect to continue to buy market share until their at a point where they get enough saturation to make Gamepass profitable as-is.

    At some point, something will have to give. Either MS find new avenues for gamepass and/or remodel the tiers they have, or the price goes up. MS wont want to be pouring money into it forever.

    Generally I don't think that Gamepass needs to be this all consuming beast of a streaming service - in fact currently I think they do a really good job of cultivating it. There's a great mix of indies, old games, and blockbusters - and there's not so much on there that you get lost scrolling through rubbish. Games as a streaming service I think should be treated differently to other media, where the amount of content is extremely important. With gaming having a wide array of experiences rather than a ton of content is more important imo - and this is something that up until now MS has struggled to do with first party studios. Having Bethesdas games(specifically Starfield I think) and CoD will be a big deal but we'll have to wait to see how that turns into subscriptions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    One thing I’ve wondered about GamePass is whether there’s a natural ceiling on its popularity.

    For most people in this forum, it’s a no brainer deal. It’s aimed at enthusiasts. But if you’re someone who plays one or two games primarily, or just buys COD or FIFA every year, it’s nowhere near as appealing. You need to be playing lots of games on GamePass for it to be that incredible deal that it can be. I think the potential audience for a big catalogue of downloadable or streamable games is ultimately much smaller than with TV or film.

    I’m curious to see where it’ll go in that regard. I think outright buying games will remain the most cost effective way for some players to get, say, Call of Duty 2024.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,617 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Beyond the people on here - or the COD/FIFA players - if MS are marketing it right and getting the word out there it is a no brainer for parents of kids with an Xbox, or parents chosing between the two.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,027 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    FIFA is on Gamepads but it's the prior year version. COD will be included in GP.

    Two games cost €140-160 and you can get three years of GP for less that that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I agree. GamePass suits me as I tend to hop from game to game. This doesn't suit the more casual gamers I know for sure.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Console Game Pass is €9.99 a month, or €120 for the year.

    If you buy more than 1 game a year, it is better value. It is not aimed at enthusiasts, it's aimed at everyone. The idea being you pay a monthly fee and can play anything from an enormous catalog. It targets casuals as it allows them to play more games without having to commit to the up front cost of purchase. Arguably it's even more compelling for casuals since they tend to care less about having access to the latest and greatest the moment it is released.

    You can either pay 80 quid and play only COD, or you can pay 120 quid and play COD the exact same as you do today, but you can also play any other game whenever you want for no extra cost.

    It's the same model as Netflix etc. I don't know why people are trying so hard to convince themselves that it's not going to be a massively popular, wildly successful model going forward.

    Within 5 years buying a game will feel as weird as buying a movie or a boxset or a cd does today.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Satya Nadella was interviewed about the acquisition on ft. behind a pay wall so I'll just.post this snippet

    Phil Spencer, Microsoft’s head of gaming, has already given informal assurances that it will not take Activision’s most popular game, Call of Duty, away from Sony’s PlayStation.

    But Nadella suggested that Microsoft should not need to make any formal concessions to win regulatory approval for the deal, because it would still be too small to have an anti-competitive impact.

    “At the end of the day, all the analysis here has to be done through a lens of: ‘what’s the category we’re talking about, and market structure?’” he said. “Even post this acquisition, we will be number three with sort of low-teens share [of the video games market] . . . We will be a bit player in what will be a highly fragmented place.”

    The Microsoft chief conceded that competition regulators were also likely to focus on the deal’s impact on the future development of the metaverse, rather than just on the current gaming market.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I never said GamePass and subscription services won’t be successful :) I think Microsoft has made a smart bet that’ll pay off for them in years to come.

    I just don’t think GamePass is as no-brainer a deal for everyone as it is for the people posting here. Add in the cost of ultimate to get online play, and it’s a decent annual cost for someone who doesn’t play that many games per year.

    In other words: I don’t know anyone who only watches just one or two tv shows or films a year (hence why Netflix constantly churns out content), but I know lots of people who only play one or two games a year. If 90% of your time is spent with Warzone and FIFA, for example, €120 is a decent chunk of change even for a bunch of extra options.

    But let me just reiterate: I think GamePass will continue to make lots and lots of money for Microsoft, even if I don’t necessarily believe it will grow endlessly or avoid price hikes. I also think it’s going to cost Microsoft a lot of money both to acquire games and pay studios to sustain the level of output they want. But it’s also definitely a very big part of the future. I for one can’t see myself unsubscribing any time soon :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    No one is denying the savings and value of Gamepass. The questions is, in a few years if Gamepass becomes so ubiquitous, does it remain 120 quid for the year? Do developers get the same deals for having their games on Gamepass as they do currently?

    Gamepass will have to recoup the costs of the acquisitions, the costs of game production for all their new first party studios considering there are no initial purchases of the games, the infrastructure and overheads of running Gamepass etc. Even if 100m people pay for Gamepass at 120quid per year, that's 12bn quid. More than 6 years just to almost offset the costs of ActiBlizz and Zenimax never mind any of the other costs.

    It may be massively popular and wildly successful, but to make a profit I would have concerns regarding what shape many of the games will take in terms of additional revenue (eg. Microtransactions, dlc, battle passes etc, and I include Sony in that given that they're planning to focus strongly on live service games in the coming years), will there be more hesitance to create games that can't generate additional revenue, and Id have concerns about likely big price increases if Microsoft gain a strong enough foothold that they have no real competitor, because ultimately they want to have the market sewn up and turn a big profit. Jesus I pay 100quid a year for Microsoft Office and after 20+ years Word still sh*ts itself if you paste in text from something else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Genuine Question - if a company like activision announce (using round, off the top of my head figures) 100 million in revenue from call of duty, is that solely the games themselves, or does it factor in things like merchandise, (posters, mugs, tees, funko pops?) I assume it does?



  • Administrators Posts: 53,749 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    They don't really announce revenue like this.

    They'll give out the monthly active users, as this is a key metric for investors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Using their size to limit competition to then increase prices would be predatory pricing, and then they're right in the middle of another investigation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Don't know. I'd imagine it'd be just from the individual game, and that merchandise revenue might just be reported under some sort of general licensing agreement. Would be completely guessing at that though.



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