Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Options
1366367369371372555

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,382 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Another brexit benefit


    "Russia's Deputy UN Ambassador, Dmitry Polyanskiy, told Sky News: "There is always room for diplomacy, but frankly, we don't trust British diplomacy. I think in recent years British diplomacy has shown that it is absolutely worthless."



    British diplomacy in the gutter, even if it is the Russians!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It was perfectly rational at the time. Continued EU membership was not guaranteed under independence. There were also a great many open questions about currency and pensions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    This!! We are a mature democracy with high levels of voter engagement who aren't going to be bounced into a knee jerk emotional decision on re-unification. There will be extensive discussion and debate both publicly on TV/Media/Papers/Social Media etc and privately in pubs, clubs, families etc and we have established trustworthy institutions like university's, the Central Bank etc who will contribute with economic analysis based on expertise rather than prejudice and we'll have had a lengthy peoples forum who will have listened to all sides and opinions, questioned experts etc and distilled their conclusions and recommendations into something we can all understand.

    From what I can see the UK jumped into the Brexit referendum without thinking it through, the narratives got hijacked by highly motivated prejudicial think tanks and a large swathe of the British public used their "yes" vote as a protest against a myriad of issues (austerity, unemployment, poor social services, housing etc etc) rather than as a thought through vote "for" a post Brexit UK and what that would actually mean in real pragmatic day to day terms.

    IMHO there is no way we'd ever get bounced into making such a fundamental decision viz viz re-unification.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    What happened when Ireland gained independence is a handy reference for questions on currency and pensions. And military ports. But the devil is in the detail like drawing the sea boundary off the East coast.

    You can argue till the cows come home about whether Scotland could or should try to grandfather in EU membership. Sweden has been just missing the criteria to join the Euro since before there was a Euro so that requirement can be fudged forever.

    But I reckon they could walk into the EFTA which gives a lot of the EU benefits without affecting continuing trade or movement with the rest of the UK. Like NI goods could be checked at ports so there'd be no need for a hard border on land.

    Since Scotland doesn't have many Tory or Labour or Lib Dem MPs it's hard to see Westminster doing much for Scotland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    BBC are reporting the border checks between NI and GB are to end at midnight.

    This will put the UK in default of the protocol and the Withdrawal Agreement.

    Move is by the DUP Agriculture Minister.

    Needless to say this leaves a hole in the single market.

    What will the British govt do? If they don't sort this immediately the EU must retaliate. No choice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,946 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Genius level stuff from Poots. (not) what sort of backing will this get in NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,069 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Seeing as they are about anyway maybe we can pay the Russians a few quid to blockade the North till Poots cops on.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,730 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: No more soapboxing about Ireland being dragged out of the single market please. Post removed.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    Important that the EU response is calm, considered and robust. Notify the UK Govt they are in breach of the TCA and follow the agreed timeline and mechanism for rectifying the breach. If the UK doesn't comply with its obligations to restore the NIP the EU has to escalate its response to the point where the UK is motivated to comply regardless of the whinging of the DUP and ultimately if the UK refuses to honour the commitments and obligations it agreed to in the TCA the EU will have no choice but to terminate the TCA all together.

    If you allow a counterparty to an agreement with you to renege on some of the commitments they entered into all you do is encourage them to renege on more and more commitments and other parties will also wonder why they should deliver on their commitments when others aren't and are getting away with it scot free.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,730 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Below standard posts removed. No silly comments please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Is Poots breaking any laws by asking civil servants to break the law ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,594 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    He believes he is permitted under the law:

    I expect the courts will be very busy with this over the coming weeks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,633 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Ultimately it is largely irrelevant whether it is technically lawful. It puts the entire agreement into question and will be seen as a hostile act, certainly against the spirit of the agreement, by the EU.

    It has been agreed, many times by both sides, that there needs to be a resolution found to the issue of the NI border with the EU. The UK agreed, by way of the agreement, that checks at ports were the best way to achieve this.

    Uk can of course do whatever it wants, but there are going to be consequences. And those consequences are the same now as they were the day they triggered A50. The UK needs to decide which is the least worst option.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Whilst it will remind anyone in the EU that you cannot trust the UK, the EU does see that the protocol is still working and being implemented...

    On Thursday afternoon, European Commission spokesman Eric Mamer said the EU's observers in Northern Ireland were satisfied the required checks were still being carried out.





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭serfboard


    I think that this is hilarious - the Minister being made to look totally powerless. Although he'll probably spin it that his Department has "become dominated by those of a nationalist persuasion", to quote Kate Hoey.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I wonder will it also show some that are wondering whether or not to vote for the DUP that they are a spent force?



  • Administrators Posts: 53,832 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The checks are not a devolved matter, and so I believe Edwin Poots' order holds no more sway than if you or I ordered the checks to stop. This is the definition of a stunt.

    The UK Govt message that this is a matter for the NI Executive is genuinely daft. They're sending Liz Truss to negotiate on the NIP, and last time I checked Liz Truss was not part of, nor accountable to, the NI Executive.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 26,069 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Would maybe be true if the UUP had their sht together but they don't seem able to get a head of steam going.

    The reaching out to the SDLP stunt didn't work as it completely misread the room with hardline unionists and wasn't enough to convince the Alliance voters.

    Unionism at all levels really needs to move away from both the religious dogma and the idea that British identity = Tory middle England only.



  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    That document is... interesting to say the least. But a lot of the things they mentioned have little or nothing to do with Brexit and could have been done as an EU member.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,298 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Donaldson has now admitted that Johnson privately told him "there is a 30% chance of a new NI protocol", which makes their sabotage of it with instructing the checks to stop, and givan resigning even more ridiculous. I really don't know what the DUP's endgame is here, other than going down the full hardline-TUV route. It's running out of feet to shoot itself in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    I listened to Donaldson on BBC Radio Ulster this morning and his argument for bringing down Stormont is entirely self serving and hollow. He tries to dress it up as being in the interest of the whole of NI by claiming the NIP is "costing" businesses there £1 billion a year in additional costs but was torn to shreds by the presenter who pointed out the £1 billion figure was an estimate made by one economist versus the UK not leaving the EU at all and, uniquely, the NIP enabled NI businesses to mitigate the worst effects of Brexit by enabling them to continue trading freely with the EU and Donaldson had no choice but to acknowledge the NIP did in fact facilitate same.

    The DUP have twisted themselves into knots over Brexit, got shafted by the ERG and BoJo who just wanted to get their English version of Brexit "done" and having been ignored when they stamped their feet and cried foul they are now throwing their toys out of the pram by bringing down Stormont but it's the last card they have to play and the entire NI electorate can see it for the desperate stunt it actually is.

    The DUP are going to get annihilated in the forthcoming elections, are tearing themselves apart internally and are getting their excuses in early, they'll blame the UUP and TUV for fragmenting the Unionist vote and the British Government for handing control of Stormont over the Sinn Fein.



  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234


    The High Court in Belfast has suspended "the order or instruction" given by Edwin Poots to officials to stop Brexit border checks



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    My immediate thought is who on earth advised Poots in the first instance that he believed the action had merit. If Poots is surprised, then someone's getting it in the neck - assuming it wasn't disruption for its own sake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,806 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It appears to have been a lawyer he consulted privately. Likely a DUP yesman.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Who advised Poots? None other than the former Attorney General John Larkin, according to the Belfast Telegraph. Given the High Court ruling, he's made both himself and Poots look very foolish.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Why would a minister take such important legal advice from a former AG and not the current AG, Dame Brenda King?



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,494 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Because he didn't want the "right" answer , he wanted a specific answer and sought to get it from someone with what he believed was sufficient "gravitas" to make it stick , even for a little while.



Advertisement