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Current regs - how do you lay out a small kitchen?

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  • 04-02-2022 2:25pm
    #1
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,112 ✭✭✭✭


    Getting my house rewired at the moment and had to do significant faffery to the kitchen design to ensure that it met new standards in terms of distance from the sink, isolators for enclosed items and so on. But I have a fairly big kitchen - 1970s house opened up to a full-width kitchen diner - so we got a working design in the end.

    Playing around with a kitchen designer for a typical apartment sized kitchen and... its either no sink or no sockets surely?

    Considering the IS10101 PDF is 120 quid (!), I'm having to trust what the sparks is telling me but I've no reason to assume its not accurate.



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    #2
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231335/current-regs-how-do-you-lay-out-a-small-kitchen

    Have you a specific question or issue



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    #3
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,112 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The title is the question.

    How is it possible to wire a standard small apartment kitchen without breaching current wiring regulations.



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    #4
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118583064#Comment_118583064

    It’s very possible to do by a competent rec.



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    #5
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,757 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118583798#Comment_118583798

    Seriously, does that help anyone? This is a discussion Board, sometimes people come looking for specific answers, sometimes, they're interested in a general conversation on a topic. This seems to be the latter given the OP has resolved the design issues in their own kitchen.

    OP has determined that sockets must be a minimum distance from the sink and as consequence are wondering, in a very small kitchen, it is possible that there simply isn't room to fit a sink, and sockets without breaching the regs.

    How would the competent rec work around this requirement?



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    #6
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    What is the requirement , I'm not up to speed presumably 300mm distance ?

    You'd have to bunch your isolators and sockets or maybe use a narrower sink , don't really see the specific question either without drawings or dimensions



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    #7
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118583935#Comment_118583935
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118583935#Comment_118583935

    Is asked op had he a specific question which I would gladly answer

    whilst it is difficult to locate switches,sockets and isolators in a small kitchen and abide by the regulations it’s always possible as the op has already resolved with a competent rec.



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    #8
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,112 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585256#Comment_118585256

    You didn't give an answer though.


    The new regulations are 2000mm as far as I can ascertain. 300 was easy to handle. 2000 is bigger than the maximum dimensions of many apartment kitchens of old.



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    #9
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118583064#Comment_118583064

    To answer your question

    like every installation be it a Kitchen,bathroom,utility etc some planning and thought has to be done by the rec to ensure regulations are met.



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    #10
    Doolittle51
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭Doolittle51


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585744#Comment_118585744

    Is it really 2000mm? If so, that's nonsense. Completely impractical for most normal sized kitchens. I've a decent sized U shaped kitchen. Because of the location of the sink, 2 metres would rule out putting any sockets in one half of the kitchen.



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    #11
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,757 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586086#Comment_118586086

    Just say you have no idea and leave it at that.

    No one's going to hunt you down or cone after you for either not knowing, or ideally, not contributing when you clearly don't know.



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    #12
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,112 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586086#Comment_118586086

    That still isn't anything vaguely resembling an answer.

    And the new regs appear to require an impossibility, not "some planning"



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    #13
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586086#Comment_118586086

    My kitchen is 2.5 metres long and and 1.6 metres wide. How would you meet the current regulations in that?



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    #14
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587810#Comment_118587810

    And what exactly isn’t meeting current regulations



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    #15
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Hold on a moment - so the new regs require what, that there be no sockets or isolators within 2000mm of a sink unit, is that correct?

    Well if so - I just surveyed my kitchen and if I was to retrospectively apply these new rules I'd be lacking sockets for: a toaster, kettle, coffee-maker, USB charging bay, kitchen speaker, inbuilt dish-washer and also the isolator for the oven and microwave. That's a whole flipping kitchen. Where's the justification and practicality in that?

    How far disconnected from reality are the people who make these decisions knowing full-well that housing units these days are exceptionally limited for space. Imposing a 2m wasteland across kitchen surfaces is only going to encourage users to install extension plugs to fill the void. Call it as it is - no point in being sanctimonious about it.



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    #16
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I doubt very much it's 2m

    1m would be stretching it , 2m is an impossibility a lot of places



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    #17
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    as far as I know there is no minimum distance for a socket to be mounted from a sink.

    if someone disagrees then please say where the rules say otherwise. Thanks



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    #18
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,408 ✭✭✭dathi


    are they getting confused with the distance an isolation switch has to the appliance it is turning off <2000mm ?



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    #19
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,077 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Surely its 200mm not 2000mm - 2m is insane. Are they plumbing a sink or a shower??



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    #20
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598759#Comment_118598759

    Possibly, I used to allow 300mm though not aware of any rule either

    As above you can be guaranteed there's no 2M rule on sinks if any



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    #21
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Its a bit ridiculous that regs aren't freely available to view online to be able to confirm this.



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    #22
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599029#Comment_118599029

    They are available online. I have a copy. I see no minimum distance requirement. Where is this supposed distance coming from? Nobody is able to point to any such rule.



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    #23
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,112 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They're availability is dependent on paying €120 unless you've got some other method to get them

    In going on what the REC currently doing the job told me



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    #24
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599846#Comment_118599846

    Any chance of a link.

    The only place I can see them available is from standards.ie for €120 for a hardcopy. That is not freely available. Nobody is able to point to any rule if the rules aren't accessible.



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    #25
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    What is this carry on with making people pay to access the rule book? More protectionist nonsense I suppose



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    #26
    iColdFusion
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    No mention of 2m min distance in the new regs as far as ive seen, I think your electrician has wasted a lot of your time OP and needs to read the regs!

    The 2m in relation to a kitchen says an isolator cant be more than 2m away from the device its controlling, its meant to be as close as possible, like other posters ive used 300mm from a sink for sockets as a minimum, comes from english regs I think and originally related to the length of a kettle lead.

    There are separation distances of over 2m associated with bathrooms however.



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    #27
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Must be where I was getting the 300 from when I was doing domestic

    Makes sense to allow a spacing but 2M, just no, that's not happening



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