Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Gobsh1tes, pure and simple. They should have no ability to object to any development for a few years until the "crisis" or "emergency" aspect changes.

Honestly, can't believe how people are so oblivious to how elitist and "pull up the ladders" these people are; Mary Hennessy and Tom van Nuenen's objection is here https://webapps.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00993327.pdf Such rubbish; "transitory population", "ghettoisation", "lack of public transport as the Luas is 20 minutes walk away so people will cycle and the infrastructure for cycling is poor";

If you look at the objectors, it seems to all be coordinated by the residents of the Abbeyfield estate in Milltown. These are all homeowners of course.

Are open viewings still a thing since covid? Big groups of people turning up without individual bookings to view a property for a period scheduled by an estate agent?

The level of debt that is used in calculating how indebted Ireland is heavily distorted thanks to the multi-national presence in Ireland just the same as GDP is a unreliable indicator of the domestic economy for similar reasons.

I'm not saying that Ireland does not have a lot of debt but it is substantially overstated due to the debt issued by multi-nationals.

National debt to gni is a good indicator.

Yes we are the higher end of the distribution curve but not the most indebted country in the world.

we have to get over this fear of public debt, its far safer than relying on private debt/credit, in order to run our economies, theres now plenty of evidence to support this, once again, debt is the money supply, no debt means no money supply, means no economy. yes long term perpetual bonds are now a critical element in getting us out of this hole, its clearly obvious that relying on credit to do this wont work, it will more than likely keep pushing the price of property up, due to its need and want to maximise returns. by not relying on public money creation systems, i.e. bond markets etc, we in fact are obviously just kicking the urgent need of building now down the road, waiting for something to happen..... wage inflation has decoupled with asset price inflation, most obvious with property, i.e. wages need to increase urgently, in order for us to be able to maintain our debt obligations, private debt being the most vulnerable, as private debt can rarely be rolled over, certainly not for the individual

If the state is paying HAP the LL in s conversation responsible for maintenance and upkeep.

Yes some LA have entered into longterm lease's on some houses. Totally different scheme to HAP.

Not sure if the banks bundled single houses into batches if selling. Generally the put batches of mortgages together to sell on as they were finding it impossible to manage the nonpaying houses. This was because it was virtually impossible to repossess.

Legally they could not sell any houses that they repossessed in batches. Each is an individual cases. Technically the best price has to be achieved for each individual houses as the remaining debt is with the owner. This is why most were sold at auction. It was why there was serious value in houses and apartments from 2011-2016. Some were sold for 10% of original build costs and mortgages. Small and mid sized investors bough these

There was some apartment blocks and house projects that were sold in bulk to larger investors. Some of these were serious value. Amy that were.not 90% complete were not sold until the market started to lift 3-4 years ago.

Your post just shows how misconceptions start and how many have no understanding of what happened.

I agree that during times of growth the government need to capitalise and either invest in making our economy more efficient or reduce/restructure our debt.

The last thing we want is to become uncompetitive as we have no control of the currency.

You normally get top marks on your data, but you may have missed the 50/50 split between private/social and affordable.

Private market rents are way out of reach for most. If you can't afford to buy its highly unlikely you can afford rents at upto twice the cost of buying. Many of the privately funded build to rent apartments are in this price range so are of little use and only achieve further increase in price

There 40k figure is made up of 25% unused units been brought back into use, with FF constantly interrupting we missed the opportunity to push SF on how they would achieve that. So if I picked up on what was said correctly. SF would build less but bring more currently unused property back to market

With every main central bank in the world concerned with inflation and overheating economies, we need to be much smarter in how we use our existing resources of land and underused infrastructure. Leaner times ahead. SF policy reflects that better than Gov policy

Public debt has to be paid for, it is funded from the bond market. If you want to fund investment without the need to access the bond market you need to make hard decisions. Increasing taxes on middle income /the working poor won't work. It is those in this bracket who provide the most income tax take.

The pandemic has shown that income tax revenue did not fall. It goes to show that those who were on the pup etc pay little or no income tax.

This has to change, our welfare system has to change. It is too generous in some situations. There is no justification for some people not working when they can and choose not to. Welfare should not be a career choice but it is. I personally know people who have a better standard of living on welfare than they would working. That is just wrong, we as a society are encouraging this and its making people bitter.

Everybody wants to live where they want, all properties should have a high BER. Prices should be affordable etc but who exactly is going to pay for this?

Everyone wants but no one is willing to make sacrifices and the State is removing the choices from people be it tax, vat etc and these funds are going to pay welfare.

To bring this post back on topic all of the above points relate to the housing market and pandering to the demands of some at the expense of others, unfairly in my opinion.

25% of 40,000 is 10k and I don’t believe that they could bring that amount of vacant property back into circulation in a year in the areas where housing is in high demand. In the whole of Dublin there is only circa 7k vacant properties and it is well below what would be vacant in a functioning house market. Let’s not forget that a lot of vacant properties are for sale/rent.

But let’s agree to differ on that what do the do in Year 2,3,4 as it won’t be possible to bring back 10k of vacant housing every year and we don’t have the capacity to build 40k.

it was quite clear that social housing was the priority which means private new builds will suffer making it harder for FTB’s.

Where do the funds come from for public debt?

Good question. Don't know really. From NTMA it says it's in a form of Government Bonds. And main holders of Government Bonds are residents. But I don't know in what form and how residents hold it.