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How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    I'm sorry to disappoint the supine partitionists but you're observers in all this. When there is a vote for unification in the north it will be the end of British jurisdiction in Ireland for good. We, in the south, won't be deciding whether we'll be unifying, or not, we'll be deciding how we unify.

    That's how this plays out. There is no alternative.

    Post edited by Junkyard Tom on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,263 ✭✭✭jh79


    Next year will be a quarter century of SF facilitating British rule in NI. More chance of seeing half a century than a UI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Dragging Franco, Hitler and Stalin into the argument is pretty daft: these guys were in a totally different league.

    I visited a German military cemetery in Normandy many years ago. No vandalism and there was a visitors' book in which there were many messages of sympathy for the dead (note, not for their leaders). Most of the messages were from French or British visitors.

    It makes your posts look pretty small and vindictive.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Who would get to control an independent state ? Some unionists politicians will stoke the fear of the boot being on the other foot. A cold house with poor human rights and a failed economy isn't going to work. If you try to play the numbers game you could hand over contiguous areas which have a large majority of nationalists. Do it by staggered plebiscites so there's no enclaves.

    Yes I'd expect local colour. Tourists love that sort of thing.


    Ask the lads in Rossnowlagh about parades. They don't worry about parades commissions, they can point to the constitution. Article 40.6.1.ii guarantees :

    The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

    Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas.




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,859 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I'de say the British Empire killed more innocent civilians than Franco



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Twenty-five years of power devolved from London to the north of Ireland. Removing British jurisdiction has been centuries in the making, another 25 years is nothing. When the north votes to end British jurisdiction, it's happening. Cry more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    ah, one of those who dont like the GFA. You may cover up your prejudices a bit better. SF aren't 'facilitating' British rule. They are part of a solution for peace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,263 ✭✭✭jh79


    The minority position still in NI and the majority in the Republic against paying for it. Good luck with that!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,263 ✭✭✭jh79


    Facilitating British rule was part of the process. It was the right thing to do. Don't see the point in participating in the Republican charade that it is anything else.

    Remember Francie Brady / Happyman42? He once said the truth shouldn't offend anyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    I say we treat the bastards like Uyghurs. Round them up and stick them in "re-education" camps in Leitrim and Longford. Those that don't come out singing Kevin Barry and Amhrain na BhFiann will be ostracised like the Roma and their lands will eventually be seized and Catholic Settlers will be moved in while the Unionists will be booted out and forced to lived in ghettoes in rented accommodation like Palestinians. That'll soften their cough.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    the truth is that SF part of a peace process. the lie is that they are 'facilitating british rule'. tells me all I need to know bout your political stance though in that you arent a fan of the peace process or the GFA



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,263 ✭✭✭jh79


    Recognizing the reality of the situation doesn't mean I'm against it!

    SF facilitating British Rule until the majority wishes otherwise is absolutely the right thing to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    you arent recognising it. you are misrepresenting it in a bid to undermine it



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,263 ✭✭✭jh79


    How am i misrepresenting it? The British rule NI and SF are part of that mechanism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    You're living in a fantasy world if you believe the Republic are going to reject a United Ireland, all political parties have expressed their aspirations for a United Ireland.

    A vote probably wouldn't even be needed in the Republic anyway, there's a good case to be made that we won't even have a vote.




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,100 ✭✭✭✭Furze99




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,100 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I'd like to see a UI in my lifetime. As a citizen of the Republic, I'll vote for it when I see that there is widespread approval in NI, 80% at least in favour. And I think that the Republic should concurrently be 80% in favour.

    Less than that and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole - who wants to import the poisonous nature of NI politics into the Republic anymore than we have to?

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - it should be the work of every single nationalist on this island to find ways of integrating both cultures. An that means giving up things on both sides. Until then, you're at nothing other than civil war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    80% in favour, that's unlikely to happen while the island is still partitioned and you are merely disguising the fact that you are completely against unification by saying you will vote when 80% are in favour.

    Anyway, a vote would pass long before 80% were in favour, what do you want 80% in favour for? The GFA that was democratically endorsed North and South says we only need 51% in favour.

    We agreed in 1998 that the status of Northern Ireland would not change unless the majority of people decided otherwise, when they finally do decide otherwise why should anyone demand an outlandish figure like 80% be in favour? Only something like around 60% of people in the North were in favour of partition in the first place and the vast majority of people in Ireland were also against partition.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,785 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nonsense, they are members of a token administration in the North that facilitates British rule, sure haven’t you and others told us repeatedly that Sinn Fein can’t be judged on what they do in government in the North, as the British still control things, which is it?

    If they are able to determine social welfare rates, why don’t they increase them to the levels of the FF/FG government in the South or are they just facilitating the British setting the rates?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    another anti GFAer. about time the coats came off lads



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  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    80% in a recent poll said they would vote against unification based on cost alone.

    Why are you so sure the Southern electorate would support it, if they have to pay for it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    As I said before the majority of people in the Republic in all polls say they would vote for a United Ireland, they ask another question in some of the polls saying would you support a United Ireland if you had to pay more taxes, people are concerned when asked that question on the spot, they have to consider would their livelihoods be at risk and would they be able to keep up with their mortgages etc. I myself would probably have said no if I was asked that question in a poll, the question in no way clarifies if it means an extra few euro in tax or an extravagant amount of tax that would destroy my livelihood, no one except you is seriously suggesting 80% of people in the Republic would vote against unity in a referendum.

    And anyway it's more than likely that a referendum would not even need to take place in the Republic anyway, we aspire to a United Ireland in our Constitution and all the political parties are in favour of it, FG and Sinn Fein have both set up plans to facilitate a UI in the future and FF are also very strongly supportive of it.




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    So you understand that for 80% of people polled recently, they would vote no if it costs them? How does that tally with your contention that the majority would vote yes? Do you want us to believe there will be no cost to the Southern taxpayer?

    The reality is, you know this, unification will cost the Irish taxpayer, I am not “suggesting” that 80% of people here would not support unification if it cost them, I am telling you recent poll results state exactly that.

    Do you have any poll results that show Southerners are willing to take on that tax burden? There are no doubt polls which you can point to which ask a question “would you support unification?”, but are there any which support unification when they are then asked specifically about the cost it would incur?

    And I am glad that you admit that you at least understand why support is not a foregone conclusion for you, or others, when tax/cost becomes a consideration. This is what I have been saying to you since the start of the thread, there is a romantic view and a pragmatic view of unification, the pragmatic view will always be more important if it affects the money in peoples pocket.

    All parties pay lip service to it, as an earlier poster said, if the Government here struggles to run the country/solve housing, justice,social, health issues at the moment, how could they possibly envisage taking on the basket case that is NI?



  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Northern Ireland doesn’t have a functioning economy and is reliant on a British handout to keep them floating. Any place with that degree of political turmoil will struggle to get significant FDI and changing the colour of the flag over Stormont won’t change that.

    To keep the six counties going the bailout will be coming from the 26 counties in a United Ireland. No amount of spin is going to get from the fact we would be providing a bailout to an area in which up to a million don’t see themselves as Irish.

    Maybe if we repeat the mistakes of the past often enough, the penny may finally drop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    If Britain force the issue, we are under no obligation to pick up the pieces of their failed state.

    Failure to consider a third option leaves us with the same issue in 1922 only the shoe is on the other foot.

    It didn’t work the last time



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,785 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Your understanding of constitutional law is lacking if you think a referendum is not needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,489 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I suspect he was talking about invading NI. Cuts out the inconvenience of a vote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Who gets to control an independent state ?……..the people of that state.

    It seems to me that as the population spit is close to parity, both sides need to stop looking to others to intervene.

    On Friday morning Jeffrey Donaldson was on the radio revelling in all the new problems they were causing and being smug as usual. And towards the end of the interview he made a reference that funding would still continue from the UK. And that’s the problem in a nutshell, cut the funding and politicians on both sides will have more incentive to behave like adults for a change.

    British control didn’t work, and I believe Irish Control repeats that mistake.

    The two communities in Northern Ireland will have to sort out their differences as any other party is not welcome by one of the communities. It won’t be easy, but United Ireland only becomes a reality when the hatred in the North subsides and they treat each other with respect. Otherwise turmoil and a money pit.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Your basis for predicted success in that all political parties are for it……..the same politicians who would change their view if it got them 300 more votes in a tight constituency.

    if you got the real Taoiseach Tony Holohan on board, you’d have a better chance 😂

    The vote in the south will depend on how much it costs but not expecting full transparency on that from the politicians…….no bailout, cheapest bailout, inflation will erode effects of bailout.

    But you have nothing to fear really, even if first referendum fails we’ll get another opportunity a few years later anyway.



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