Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

boosabum · 05-02-2022 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542246#Comment_118542246

Would it be possible to pm me a copy of that quote ? I have the same system on order but didn't drive as good a bargain so would like to be able to push for quicker installation to make me feel better :)

Bellie1 · 05-02-2022 6:44pm

Only started getting quotes. Got one without battery from one of the energy providers partners and was 8k without battery. This is first quote have gotten from an independent company

3.9kwp

10*390wp qcell

1 huawai 5kw li-ion battery

1 huawai 5kw hybrid inverter

1 myenergi eddi diverter.

total cost incl vat inc Seai grant =9000

Up further it says total cost =11k so it's assuming grant of 2k

Does this seem right? Munster based. Can someone recommend a few companies to me? On the fence re whether batteries worth it with only 10 panels. The sales guy was saying to charge at night using night saver rate and then use during the day. He also said no point putting up more panels than need. If want an extra panel, then am extra 350 per panel ( we might fit 12 on the roof). Only 2 of us in the house so electricity usage not that high.

con747 · 05-02-2022 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587310#Comment_118587310

Hi, it's posted a few pages back. Post #675. That quote was from mid December so prices have gone up now.

DrPhilG · 05-02-2022 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587346#Comment_118587346

That's a terrible price. An terrible advice. Put up as many panels as you can fit.

My installer charged an extra €200 per panel fitted so €325 is overpriced too.

NOTSLIM · 06-02-2022 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575359#Comment_118575359

Hi everybody,

Thanks for all the help so far.

I would be very grateful for one more bit of advice if possible?

I am talking to a local PV supplier (Recommended by you guys on boards.ie) who is being fairly good in terms of the generic quotations to date – but I do want to finalise my system and get the actual final quotation.

Electricity Usage: Consumption understood and small bit of wiggle room on habits – but not much – we are very good at using night rate when possible.

Retrofit LEDs Lighting: I take this point completely and this is my new Summer project – The house is all dimmable spot lights currently running 15 or 20W bulbs. It will be my intention to replace with dimmable LEDs between 3 and 6W.

System Spec being considered:

7 – 10 kWp solar array

7.5 – 10kWh battery system

6KWp Inverter

Zappi Car charger – EV arriving in the next 2/3 months – circa 150 km/day 7 days a week - driving patterns means car is at home from 10am till 2/3pm daily

No eddi – have solar thermal

Here is what I am seeking advice on:

Inverter/Batteries etc will be fitted in a single storey garage with un-shaded East facing roof (possibility of getting upto 14 panels (5.5kWp) – possibly as a DIY job with a DIY battery build down the line).

I have 2 southern facing unshaded roofs on the house one below the other. The second storey roof can take a total of 18 panels (7kWp) and the first storey roof can take 4 panels (1.5kWp) - giving me a total of 22 panels (8.5kWp).

I have an electrical/utility ducting that can get cabling to both these roofs and back to the garage without any digging etc.

Advise Required:

Panel array orientation - I have the option to go all south facing or a combination of south/east facing. Been doing a lot of reading but it is not clear to me if if there are any distinct advantages. Would there be any thoughts on this?

Is there a limitation on how many panels you can put on an individual inverter string? Do you have to use both strings on an inverter in order for it to work/work optimally? My thinking is that I would like to put either the 18 or 22 panels on 1 string and use the second-string input from the garage roof in the future (or with the 2 orientation option). Is this feasible/possible?

If an individual panel fails/gets damaged is the whole panel array stopped then if on a single string? Would individual panel optimisers remove this total fail scenario?

Thanks for all your help.

Regards,

NotSlim

championc · 06-02-2022 12:38pm

First of all, the inverter spec will have a DC Input rating, is is based on the VOC of each PV panel. So this will possibly average out at about 12 panels per string.

Secondly, strings do not have to be equal in panel numbers, but you still have the panels limitation per string.

Thirdly, 8.5kWp of South will more than cover any low morning usage. West facing can cover a teatime load which will always be higher than morning loads. So forget the East, since I assume too it's going to be sunless by mid afternoon at the latest (at least partially)

Finally, you are honestly more likely to have an optimizer failure than a panel connector failure - believe me, I know !!! I've never heard of a failing panel tbh.

NOTSLIM · 06-02-2022 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589899#Comment_118589899

Thank you championC for clearing all that up - really appreciate that....

Deagol · 06-02-2022 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589899#Comment_118589899

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575510#Comment_118575510

Just to add - I feel optimizers are great if you have some shading issues - but I would not add them as a bypass for the case where a panel might fail. As CC has said, panels are pretty reliable. But more, if one panel fails on a string without optimizers it's very obvious as the whole string will stop working (almost). If you have optimizers though, it may take a long time, especially in ireland with our very variable solar input, to spot you've lost a panel.

Oh, and don't forget the optimizers are ~30% cost of a panel so not exactly a good use of capital expenditure just to save on what would be very small amounts of KwH's.

Deagol · 06-02-2022 1:29pm

bullit_dodger · 06-02-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589682#Comment_118589682

I applaud your message first with the level of details that you put in. The more details you give.....the easier it is for people here to give you better targeted advice.

As championc mentioned, there's a limit of (about) 12 panels per string. This is usually because the inverters have a max voltage of 600v per string, and the panels are in about 45v each. So 12x45 = 540v. Depending on the panel, as different panels have slight different voltages, you -might- sneak in a 13th panel, but I think the general feeling is that 12 panels is the max for a string.

Also, as Championc noted....for the most part I'd go south only, and have the bulk (all?) of your panels facing south. As you say your EV will be there in the house from 10am to 2-3pm, so that works well for that. However an option to think about which you might not have mused over is to additionally have an East/West split of say 6 panels each. Not so much to move you away from the south position, but at least you'll have considered options. I don't know if you have a west roof to accommodate 6 panels?

So you could have

12x panels facing south on string 1
6x panels facing East on String 2
6x panels facing West on String 2

Totaling 8.8Kwp (assuming 370w panels) If your doing a east/west split on a single string, you have to have the same number of panels (and same type) on each roof to avoid optimizers. The sparks will need to wire this correctly as it's not wired the "normal" way, but nothing hard here.

Why do this? Well, one advantage is that with 8.8Kwp of panels on sunny days with all of your panels south, you will be limited by the inverter's 6Kw limit. You have more power available (7-8Kw) but the inverter will only suck down 6Kw. Often this is fine, you live with that loss. However with a east/west split, you tend to have an early morning peak, and of course a later afternoon peak. Coupled that to your "main" array facing south that would give you a nice more even production through the day. The East/West splits come into their own in summer. They aren't great in winter, but in summer you could be producing solid power from them as early as 6am and as late as 8-9pm. Smoothing the generation will stop you from being inverter limited.

A little bit further back up the route. I'd invest in one of these.....

Efergy Technologies Engage HUB 1.1 in-Home Energy Monitor : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Install it (no spark required) and use it to turn on/off electrical applicances in your house. Go into each room in turn and turn on/off appliances and see what's using what. You would be surprised by what you learn and can make instant savings. Easily worth the €100 or so for the unit.

championc · 06-02-2022 3:56pm

Note for EVERYONE

Consider too the storage element. You really do NOT want a Hybrid Inverter if you plan to charge an EV during the day. You should get a separate Storage Inverter (the Sofar ME3000).

Why ?

With a Hybrid Inverter, you have zero control over the charging of batteries. This means that you could charge batteries from early to 10:00 and then from 15:00 to sundown if the car is connected. You could also restrict the charge level and have a mix of car and battery charging simultaneously.

Jonathan · 06-02-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590684#Comment_118590684

Not sure I'm following your argument.

I have a hybrid inverter, and a Zappi and have no issue. You just need to set up your CT clamps correctly.

My Zappi is connected from my meter box, and the MyEnergi CT is on the ESB tails. The inverter CT is on the Consumer Unit and therefore can't see the Zappi load. Therefore I'll never empty my battery by charging the car.

A bit of a non-issue anyway as I charge both the battery and the EV at night rate.

bullit_dodger · 06-02-2022 4:19pm

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that argument either about not wanting a hybrid inverter. Of course it does depends a little on the hybrid inverter. My own one (GivEnergy) has some pretty nice customization settings to allow you to specify windows where you can decide what you want to do.

I can specify times to charge/discharge (Note: This mode isn't active for me, so ignore the actual times above as they're bogus - it was just highlighting that it's possible)

If this functionality wasn't available, then sure....you might want to avoid a hybrid if this was a thing important to you. I don't have a EV, and even if I did I'd still want to prioritise the house battery over an EV charge.....as pumping charge into the house battery (generally) will generate more savings for you.

simpsimp · 06-02-2022 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586750#Comment_118586750

I was quoted €10,900 by same Enniskillen company for 16 panels, 5kw Solis and 5kw Puredrive - they must really like that figure!

simpsimp · 06-02-2022 4:47pm

I am down to a shortlist of three suppliers and am trying to finalise things next week.

All three companies came recommended here, and the prices are around about what I'd expect to pay.

i.e. 5.5kWh array; 5kW inverter; 5kWhr battery; rough cost €8,000 - €8,500; I'm prepared to haggle a little at the end.

My question is about accuracy of the proposals.

One of the companies I feel has measured really accurately, and knows in advance exactly what goes where.

I think the other two companies are sort of guesstimating, telling me they can fit more panels than is possible, and hoping to muddle through on the day.

Have other people had this experience? Where the plan is revised on the day when the installers finally get accurate measurements?

Bellie1 · 06-02-2022 5:51pm

Just got quote from Enniskillen crowd( told them am in cork but they seemed willing to quote anyway). Don't know if will fit 12 panels on roof but assuming can, then we'd get the full grant. From what read here, no point in eddi diverter really so can take 500 off price? Saw poster earlier claiming got similar quote for 7000

12 PANELS 340 WATT 4 KW. JA SOLAR TIER1

5KW SOLIS HYBRID INVERTER

4.8 KW PYLON TEC.BATTERY

EDDIE WATER DIVERTER

WI FI DONGLE

PRICE 10900 EUROS

GRANT 3000 EUROS APPLY TO SEAI

TOTAL 7900 EUROS

mrm · 06-02-2022 6:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590785#Comment_118590785

Would there be anything that would prevent dumping the battery excess into the EV on an evening, say before a day you would be away on a long drive?

championc · 06-02-2022 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590718#Comment_118590718

The point is that you cannot charge a car from excess solar BEFORE the battery is fully charged with a Hybrid Inverter.

If the generation falls below 1.4kWh, then it will of course charge the battery. But with large systems, there is still decent generation potential after 15:00 to charge the battery before sundown

bullit_dodger · 06-02-2022 6:52pm

Dunno - to me it's more of a question of where you get the "best bang for buck" for the energy your generating, and for different people that will depend on their consumption. The scenario we were talking about earlier was it's lunchtime, the sun is shining and you have the house battery and the EV to fill.

The way I think about that (and btw it's not an "I'm right everyone else is wrong") is that if I put a KWhr into my house battery, chances are I'm going to use that sometime before 11pm so I'll get it back and save me from importing from the grid at day rate. So effectively that unit of solar energy is "worth" 1 day-use unit. If I was going on a long drive the following day, as opposed to putting the "solar unit" into the car, I could simply charge the EV battery at night rate instead, so I sort of "wasted" (bad word here) the solar unit produced by putting it into the car as I could have imported it at night rate. ...... if you follow me.

This assumes a few things.

a) Your on a day/night tariff (which to be fair most of us are)

b) you are not using the EV and that unit until the next day.

c) your usage is high enough to use the unit during day time (we'll ignore losses)

Once the house battery is full, then "have at it" in the car all the rest of the day long :-)

championc · 06-02-2022 6:55pm

Maybe if you have 20kW plus of storage. Realistically, charge it on night rate and keep the battery for the house.

Discharging of generated solar after night rate kicks in makes little sense unless the following day is to be good enough to recharge batteries completely (or enough to get to the following evenings night rate cutoff)

bullit_dodger · 06-02-2022 7:11pm

Yeah spot on championc - there's certainly edge cases to the optimal scenario like I mentioned. 20Kwhr of storage would be another edge case, but with the exception of you/Phil and another "enthusiasts".... 99% of people are probably in the 5Kwhr or lower range. I'm probably an outlier myself at 8.2Kwhr.

Evd-Burner · 06-02-2022 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590181#Comment_118590181

Regarding the wiring of a second string on E/W I assume you'd have to wire with an optimizer between E/W?

MAULBROOK · 06-02-2022 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591172#Comment_118591172

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590855#Comment_118590855

They did quote 5kw panels for that price, looks like the panels are getting less and the price stays the same.

I will always say get the 6kw inverter as you can expand with more panels and its the max you can go to on a domestic install. The difference is a few hundred euro and it will future proof the setup.

Bellie1 · 06-02-2022 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591846#Comment_118591846

Theyll be filling both sides of roof as it is. I reckon 12 panels might not even fit. Is the quote ok? It's the lowest of the 4 quotes have gotten so far.

simpsimp · 06-02-2022 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591975#Comment_118591975

See my earlier post today, they quoted for 16 panels, but I'm genuinely unsure that they'll be able to fit them!

I'm suspecting that they are just telling me what they think I want to hear, and that on the day I'd end up with fewer panels...

Not to be a control freak, but I want to feel sure that the plan is properly specified for the space...

Deagol · 06-02-2022 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591800#Comment_118591800

No. That's why you have 2x seperate strings. And you can't use one optimizer for an entire string (even though I've seen a few companies giving this advice).

An optimizer does a single panel - it's specifically wired to to make the panel(s) simulate a parallel wiring config instead of series. There is a dual panel optimizer available that does 2x panels per optimizer but same thing applies, it only looks after the two it's connected to.

mrm · 06-02-2022 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591374#Comment_118591374

Apologies that this is not solar quote related, but my first question is can the battery discharge directly to the EV or is there anything that prevents this (discharge rate of battery; the 1.4kW min for EV charge; no direct link between battery and EV?) - I am sure I am testing your 'no such thing as a stupid question!

Then if yes to above, is the solar delivered free unit in the battery not the best bang for buck unit (as the next day you will be away and not needing the battery store)? You can restock the battery while you are away on your drive as the house will only require minimum demand. Probably only relevant on monster battery systems.

Evd-Burner · 06-02-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592191#Comment_118592191

I was assuming a different type of optimizer of some sort for an entire array.

I'm wondering what bullit_dodger meant with the below as I'm doing a DIY setup and could have potential to do an E/W and south.

"So you could have

12x panels facing south on string 1
6x panels facing East on String 2
6x panels facing West on String 2

Totaling 8.8Kwp (assuming 370w panels) If your doing a east/west split on a single string, you have to have the same number of panels (and same type) on each roof to avoid optimizers. The sparks will need to wire this correctly as it's not wired the "normal" way, but nothing hard here."

Deagol · 06-02-2022 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592328#Comment_118592328

Oh right, I see what you're trying to do here. I'm going to disagree with bullit here and I personally don't recommend to do three directions like that as you'll have to put optimizers on all 12 of the east / west panels (cost of ~€720 ). And the optimizers help a lot with shading but they in no way will get the east panels to work at 100% when the west are shaded and vice-versa.

My advise (and I'll say it now that I'm just an enthusiast like most others here, not a professional), would be to have 2x inverters. One hybrid for the East / South or South / West and one for the remainder. (I'm assuming you're getting a battery? - if so I'd have the battery on the south array as most likely to have surplus on that string).

Be interested to see if anyone disagrees with me on this and what their reasoning might be!

MAULBROOK · 06-02-2022 10:25pm

I like your thinking. I would go with south / west of one inverter and dump the east idea. this will save on the expense additional optimizers. and a second inverter.

Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

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