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Getting a bit sick of being a landlord

straight

Are buy to lets worth it anymore? The income tax is a killer altogether. Finding it impossible to get plumbers to do work and when they do their charges are huge. I think I'm a bit too soft with some tenants. One took advantage of me fairly bad recently. Would I be just as well off investing money elsewhere?

I was considering buying another property through my pension to be more tax efficient but I think you have to sell the property at a predefined time which is a turn off?

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J_1980

Would only consider it in areas where

a) you get loads of high quality tenants (ie docks in Dublin) that can successfully be sued for any arrears.

b) buy a decent quality B/C1 rated property that is easy to maintain (no period or overly expensive newbuilds) and won’t have any retrofit requirements later on.

The_Conductor

The bigger issue at the moment if you're trying to invest money- is a lack of any decent investment opportunities (and of those opportunities that are there- they tend to be incredibly risky). A lot of the recent outlook briefings have been on the downside- particularly in light of signposted interest rate increases- however, simply leaving your cash on deposit means you're loosing 5%+ purely through inflation.

It all depends on the level of risk that you are satisfied to take on- however, a lot of prospective investors are actively divesting of illiquid assets and keeping their funding in cash where possible.

Its hard to advise you one way or the other- the easier question to ask you is what level of risk are you satisfied to expose yourself to- and take it from there.

Personally- I'd be more inclined to reduce my exposure to any potentially risky investments, as the propensity to get burnt is heading in the wrong direction.

straight

I think I might sell 1 or two properties and keep 1 or two. It feels very 2005ish.

spalpeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592959#Comment_118592959

I guess at least demand cannot collapse unlike 2008

10pennymixup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592959#Comment_118592959

Yep, 'cept for me it feels like midnight 31st December 2007.

My last one went sale agreed just before Christmas.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593201#Comment_118593201

Why can't it collapse?

spalpeen

Because there is a high demand with very low stock. In 2007 we had high demand and high stock. The hundreds of thousands looking to buy homes aren't just going to turn around in the morning and say 'ah no its grand, we'll just rent at extortionate rates forever '

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593242#Comment_118593242

Cause in 2008 weren't we mainly renting houses to people who were building more houses?

Ubbquittious

You can get sick of any business and if you go to something else it could be a case of out of the frying pan & into the fire.

In any business particularly at the start before you work out a good system you have to earn the same money twice. Like if you are selling a physical product you get returns, unhappy customers, people who have problems getting it to work, suppliers who give trouble. Landlording has a huge advantage that there is extremely high demand for the product. You don't have to go around to people & cold calling to give them a spiel to sign them up. Of course you are mired in the difficulties that come with your own business and everyone else who is at something else tries to let on everything is great.

I would be particularly weary about investing now. Every tom dick & harry was into crypto last year and then things started tumbling. There could be a squeeze on the way. When the fella sweeping the street is telling you what stocks to buy you know there's trouble ahead

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593201#Comment_118593201

It can collapse. We have a lot of immigrants here who can go home if their sector runs into difficulties. A hiccup in the tech sector could cause that. We'll have to pay the piper at some point for the 2 years of free money pumped into the economy during covid. The present high demand is not caused by the huge volumes of kids Irish people are having as far as I can tell.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593242#Comment_118593242

In 2006/2007 we build over 150k houses. Banks financed builders to complete projects with out selling any houses. You could get a 110% loan for even a second or third house. And got loans at 6-8 times wages

Totally different at present. People have to have deposits and have limited borrowing capibility. If there is a shock to the system it will not be property based. While a shock elsewhere in the system may/will effect the property market it will not collapse the market. You might see a 5-10% drop for 6-18 months but it's unlikely to be long lasting.

DubCount

OP's question was pretty straightforward. "Are buy to lets worth it anymore?"

The straightforward answer is no. I say that as a former landlord who gave up and am delighted (in spite of house price increases) to be out.

The first issue I see is the demonisation of landlords. There is an underlying narrative that if you rent out residential property, you are automatically an evil money-grabbing miser (probably using more colourful language). There is a large element of the media and politicians only dying to lay the blame for the housing crisis on landlords personally. Its no longer acceptable to admit to being a landlord in polite company - the rest of Ireland looks on you the way the media does.

Next is the constant flow of new legislation. Anti-discrimination against HAP, rent controls, rent freezes, requirements for lettings...... . The list is long and growing each year. The days when a lease was an agreement between 2 adults who could make their own decisions is gone.

Then there is the risk of a non-paying tenant who cannot be evicted for the guts of 2 years and can do thousands of Euro worth of damage when they leave the property. No protection or comeback for the landlord. Take tens of thousands of losses on the chin and dont expect any sympathy.

Finally, the cost base is increasing. Interest rates are at rock bottom and will only increase (especially with inflation pressures). The cost of electricians, plumbers, painters etc. are going mad - assuming you can even find one. All this while you cant increase rents.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593617#Comment_118593617

You have pretty much summed it up there. Tradespeople don't give a dam about you and rates are gone ridiculous. I was nervous about even posting here as a landlord because I might get attacked for being the big greedy landlord and the root of all evil. I had one particular set of tenants who rang rings around me recently with sad stories. I discounted their rent and gave them everything and anything for the house. Then they announce that they had bought a house of their own and were moving out. They wanted to use their deposit for the last months rent and they didn't vacate for 3 weeks after that. They left the house filthy and took curtains, furniture and everything out of the kitchen presses.