Child called my 7 year old 'chubby'
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Despite the fact that you gave a literal quote of what you would say to this child, we will go along with your contention that you would have this conversation in an age appropriate way - whatever form that would take. Let's start to think then about the actions and outcomes of such a conversation.
A child of seven is completely dependent on the adults around them, has no agency of their own and is highly impressionable. Children that age eat what their given by the adults, and exercise when brought to play by the adults. So telling them that they can make changes will result in what? It at a minimum result in anxiety, since they will be worried about something they don't control. If they go further down that road it will result in refusing food as that is the only action open to them. They will hide school lunches and will not eat the meals made for them. If that continues to teenage years and you'll have purging and over exercise. That doesn't always happen of course, but it can.
It's is parents responsibility to protect children from these worries, not to add to them. Treating and talking to children like they are adults is not in their interest. Children can be clued in, but they are still children, something often forgotten these days. If a child is overweight or unfit it is completely the fault of the parents and no one else especially not the child.
Eating disorders, if you've ever experienced them in your family (and it seems likely that you haven't, given your "advice") are mentally destructive to the child and completely corrosive for the adults relationships around them. If ever there was a wolf to keep from the door...
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I'd also nearly suggest talking to the teacher about this.
The teacher can have a general chat about healthy issues and people being different.
She can also watch out for the girl that made the comment.
She could really cause a lot of issues for people.
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A thoughtful response, thank you.
" literal quote"
Not a literal quote no. As I said already I am in a forum for adults talking with adults. So I am discussing what I would essentially say to the child - but phrasing it in a general way for the people I am currently talking to here in the forum(adults). The words that would come literally out of my mouth while talking to any of my children - would of course be tailored to them specifically.
"So telling them that they can make changes will result in what?"
I believe in giving my own children autonomy where possible - and where that is not possible, giving them a good illusion or approximation of autonomy. You are entirely right that quite often (but not always) what a child eats and when they exercise is under our guidance. Not always though for sure. For example my kids meet other kids for excercise and play. Not just "when brought by adults".
But ultimately yes I agree with your point - the child is often a passive player in the choices we put upon them.
So to answer your question specifically about what would happen next and what the results would be. The first result would be they would have the choice about whether "X" (whatever attribute it is in play) is something they want to work on. Perhaps then much of the choices supporting that (such as modification of diet) will fall upon that child's adults to implement. But for me the point would be that the child here has made choices - was made part of the conversation - and had as much autonomy in the whole thing as possible.
In other words - if as an adult I am concerned with some attribute like body weight it is my job to modify the food I am giving my child among other things. However what I have been saying on this thread so far is not about that. It is about a child who has - themselves - focused on an attribute that I think is currently perfectly fine but they have developed as a source of self doubt, depression, anxiety, inferiority or some other negative emotion all the same.
In that situation I see my job as a parent to Prio 1 undermine the negative and erroneous sources of that negative emotion. Promote body positivity, self confidence, internal locus of evaluation, and other positive sources of personal validation and self worth and confidence and acceptance and self empathy.
All great stuff and is pretty much what everyone else on the thread is also saying.
What I am adding to that is just one extra option on the table on top of all the other stuff. Which is that if the child still finds that attribute as a source of negativity - and it is an attribute that is potentially labile (as opposed to something that can not be changed easily or at all, like height or skin color or whatever) - then a useful and healthy conversation can be had with a child to that effect too. And the child can be very much made to feel an active and participating part of that conversation. To what degree is of course age and individuality dependent. But I see nothing about the number "7" specifically that magically precludes it in and of itself.
And it can be done in a way that does not at all suggest some of the concerns for outcomes you list in your second paragraph. Let alone to eating disorders. But that is nothing new and nothing specific to this conversation or this thread topic. In many things there is a right way and a wrong way to implement or discuss them with a child. That something can be discussed or implemented badly or in a harmful way - does not mean that that thing itself is bad or harmful. Many many things fit that fact in parenting our children.
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Just out of interest, where would you draw the line. The advice was asked about a 7 year old who has a perfectly healthy weight and just has a different body shape to her friend. So you suggest a possible solution along side reassuring them there is nothing wrong, is to also tell them its in their power to change.
But is this always true? If the same child had come home saying a child had told them their nose was too big would you offer the same 2 step advice? Does the power to change oneself include possible cosmetic surgery?
Why is acceptable to tell a child if they want they can change their perfectly healthy and natural body shape?
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I really like iguana's approach of teaching their son, who's into maths and stats, how to check his bmi as a reassurance that he's healthy. This is also a means to demonstrate that the healthy range is actually something very broad and not narrow, which helps illustrate that positive message that we're all different and don't need to worry about being exactly the same. Great idea.
I also agree with those recommending a word to the teacher. He or she can keep an eye on things and talk generally to the class about kindness and the importance of politeness and not commenting on others ' appearance. That's what it boils down to. Whether or not anyone in the class has a big belly is of no relevance to others and it should be made clear that unasked for feedback re physical appearance is not ok.
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Thanks for the thoughtful response. Not to dodge your question but I tend not to "draw lines" - even in theory. Much like the old phrase "all things being equal" - when in fact they never are - context and situation dictate everything.
To answer your question about "is this always true?" however - I think I already addressed that in the post you are replying to. If you would be so kind as to re-read the first half of the second last paragraph. If they reach age 18/21 and wish to seek surgery that is on them as an adult to decide.
I would reverse your last question however. Why would it not be acceptable to do so? "healthy and natural" is not a fixed target like a bullseye on a board that you either hit it or miss it. Rather it is a continuum along which we can move.
I certainly explore moving on that continuum with my children in an age appropriate and - above all - fun way. Any attribute they have that is healthy and good is not simply ignored if it can be improved on even more. My children train jujitsu and capoeira and meditation and running and more. Have been since age 3. They are perfectly "healthy and natural" children but they are also aware how they can further better themselves. Stronger or fitter or faster or more balanced or more flexible or or or or or. And they truly love it.
I like to teach them not to compare themselves to others or hold themselves to external standards. Rather the only person they should be in competition with today - is the version of them from yesterday. And they love going to bed at night telling me how they kicked yesterdays ass. Some new goal reached - or new knowledge learned or or or.
And I also teach them that even when you are a perfectly healthy and natural shape - it still takes some level of work and discipline in life to maintain that too. Complacency of noting one is prefectly fine so one does not have to do anything at all is not really something I would promote in my own kids. I liked to teach them that even those of us dealt a completely lucky hand in life - have the responsibility to maintain that too.
And when it comes to things like food I have been focused on making them as informed and as involved as possible. They help me grow food and catch and choose food. They help me cook food. We discuss food often and what is good and bad and healthy and "junk". What food is good for health and what food is good just for pleasure but not nutrition and so on. And that there is nothing wrong with "pleasure food" so long as it is treated with respect and moderation. They have a very healthy relationship with food in fact which I am very happy with given my own love for food and cooking which has become quite an obsessive hobby over the last decade :)
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I have to wonder if you are projecting your own feelings about weight on to your child. She appears to be saying things but not upset by them. Kids say stuff X is tall, Y has curly hair. They often don’t mean it in a negative way (I know some do, but the majority don’t). The first thing I would ask her is how did it make her feel when the other girl said that about her belly. My girls (slightly younger/ slightly older than yours) say it to each other all the time and they are like pull throughs for rifles, so they just think it’s a mean thing to say without understanding why (TV, I guess). Depending on her response I would as others have said talk about different shapes and how boring it would be if we all looked the same. I am going to go against the grain here and suggest you read something about empowering your daughter and not passing on hang ups. For your daughter make sure she reads lots about strong female characters, the rebel girl books are brilliant. Women who changed the world. There is no waist size mentioned in those 😀.
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To be fair to TaxAH, all he is suggesting is that people have the ability to do something about things that they are not happy about if they want to. That's not saying they HAVE to, but that they do have that element of control over their own situation (with parental support and guidance obviously in this case).
There is too much of this "you're fine the way you are" stuff creeping into modern society, even when it's patently clear that it's not true or indeed healthy. I'm not at all saying this is the case for the OP's daughter, but there is no harm in occasionally taking a step back and looking at situations with a critical/objective eye either.
It's natural as parents to want to protect our children from everything, including negative comments/perceptions from others, but there's a line between that and being overprotective as well. Giving children coping skills and the ability to properly handle negativity is just as important as reinforcing their self-image.
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The Supermac’s and Macdonald’s have a lot to answer to.
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You’re right she didn’t seem bothered when she told me about that comment in particular. But she is generally very sensitive to criticism (something we’re working on all the time) and I want to be proactive about avoiding body hang ups. I was just looking for ideas on building a positive body image in case there are more of these types of comments and it becomes a thing.
I know kids say lots of things without thinking but this other child does seem a bit mean. She has a history of purposefully excluding various kids and she has made negative comments about my daughter’s clothes before. She has no other friends at the moment and my girl has been going out of her way to include her.
I will look at books about empowering girls. Do you have any recommendations about particular books? We are definitely into strong female characters in this house but that’s an area to double down on too. Will look at the rebel girls books.
Post edited by houseyhouse on0 -
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Oh I hear you, it’s so difficult being a parent and balancing things I struggle with it all the time. That other girl does not sound nice. Tbh, to tackle that I would ask your daughter how she feels in her company. I would reiterate that not everyone will be friends and that’s ok. We should only spend time with people who we feel happy with. I don’t have a specific book, sorry but I would say watch your language. We use you are so clever to think of that. That dress is pretty not that dress makes you look pretty. She dyed her hair because she liked how it made her feel. These are just some tips I’ve gotten off very strong women in my life and has helped me to try and get my daughters thinking of their achievements instead of how they look. It’s not perfect but I think it helps.
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On the subject of building up resilience against criticism - I think one way I have done that as a parent is to learn to not only embrace but enjoy failure with my children. As parents we are often very good at heaping on praise for success and progress and achievements. What we sometimes do not do as parents is learn to enjoy failure - laugh about it and share it - build on it and acknowledge it - congratulate for making attempts, even failed attempts, and much more. I try to make failure and things like failure as much an enjoyable part of life as success and achievement. And a knock on effect of this is indeed a strong resilience against criticisms too.
As for strong female characters - I would certainly recommend the Serafina books by Robert Beaty. The lead character is a very strong female lead character. I would advise reading the book yourself first as it is a tiny bit scary and graphic. So it would be your call if your 7 year old is ready for it or not. My own daughter was 7 when we first read/heard it. And the woman who does the audio book version was really good at it (to my shame her name escapes me as I read this).
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I would just worry when you state categorically that if you are unhappy with certain things physically that its within your ability to change them. This is not always true - everybodys body shape is different. I might have wider hips than my friend, and no amount of healthy diet and exercise will change that fact. Yes I may lose weight and they may reduce in size, but proportionally on my body they will always be wider than someone elses. Similarly, one person might have a much more defined waist naturally, and the other be much more straight up and down. And I agree with you its important to instill the idea that they should not compare themselves to others, but where else does the idea that a smaller stomach is better for them and what they want.
Its these reasons I think speaking of changing the physical attributes in the same way as improving your sports ability, or school work are quite different.
It is obviously different for a child who is overweight, but I still think that focusing on the physical is the wrong way to go. As a parent you are in charge of the food - change things up. As a family get more active. Make it part of every day life rather than singling out that your child has an issue they have to change.
I have awful body image from being made aware of things like that when I was very young. I was "bigger" than other girls in my class but looking back I was just waiting a growth spurt and was perfectly healthy and fine. But that started a life time of dieting, comparing myself to others and having a generally awful relationship with food and my body. I know it was not my mothers intention when she suggested I join Weight Watchers with her at 10, she was trying to help her daughter who had noticed a difference - but both of us looking back wish it had been different.
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But I did not state it categorically. Quite the opposite. I very clearly - at least 2 or 3 times - made it clear I was differentiating between things we can change and those we can not. And that I would of course treat one very different to the other. So it seems the main locus of disagreement you have with my posts is focused on something I have never actually done or said?
That is something I think we as parents have to evaluate. While we are instilling all the good things like body positivity and self acceptance and self empathy - we as parents can also attempt to gauge our child's ability to change certain things about themselves. And if we feel that there is potential there then after we install all that good thinking we can then further say to the child "But look - if thing is really still bothering you - we could work on it all the same - and if that is something you would be interested in doing we can talk about the ways to do that".
But yes some attributes simply can not be changed. By anyone. Some can be changed by some - but the next individual might not be able to. That is why "advice" on forums like this one should be seen more like "options". And as parents we of course have to evaluate all the options and pick the one(s) that fit our individual situation, individual philosophies, and individual child and their capabilities and circumstances.
While I am as you say "in charge of food" as a parent - among many other things that I essentially control - I do not tend to do those kind of things from on high like a deity. I try to involve my children as much as possible in the decisions and the execution and the conversation. As I said before - I try to give children as much autonomy and control as possible. When it is not possible - I still try to give them as much of an illusion of autonomy and control as I can too. Random example would be if you look at my post history on how I get my kids to brush and care for their teeth. It is somewhat different to how I have personally seen any other parent do it.
But I think once again when you write something like "singling out that your child has an issue they have to change" that you are misreading a lot of what I am writing and saying. Because that quote is describing the exact opposite of anything I have so far said and promoted on this thread. Certainly your personal experience as you describe it in the last paragraph is very different to anything I have done or would do with my own children. And it is a shame you had to go through that - and have had to work to rise above it and defeat it.
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What should I be doing to help my daughter?
You’re doing everything already by being careful not to criticise other peoples bodies or your own and trying not to make a big deal of it when she says it, telling her bodies come in all shapes and sizes.
I’d have just pointed out that what the other child did and said was just rude and inappropriate. I’d make sure your daughter understands that she has nothing to feel bad about.
I know it’s difficult as you’re thinking about your daughter, but I wouldn’t be entertaining the thoughts of what another child said and whether or not I should be checking my child’s weight and height on growth charts. I’m guessing that’s not something you do in front of your daughter anyway, I mean just for yourself and your own sanity!
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Thanks. I don’t normally check growth charts. I only mentioned that because I knew there would be some who would think that she must really be overweight and I just couldn’t see it.
She seems to have moved on completely. No mention of it since then and she’s been in great form so, fingers crossed, it won’t become an issue. I’m grateful for all the comments and I’ll be prepared if it does come up again.
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I am not sure if anyone mentioned this, but so many kids that I know end up getting a growth spurt and their weight seems to get redistributed. Maybe her body is just getting ready for a growth spurt. Sounds like she has forgotten about the issue. I hope it doesn't happen again.
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