Galway traffic

ratracer · 02-02-2022 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573527#Comment_118573527

What’s also worth considering is thinking of a cycle Lane as similar to a bus Lane or tram line. How often do you see them filled up with traffic? Rarely, and if they are, it’s usually caused by something that shouldn’t be there.

But a lot of motorists don’t seem to think that way about cycle lanes. It’s like because there’s no queue of traffic in them, like in the car lanes, they are not being used. I sometimes wonder would those same people like bus lanes to be taken out as they are not full of buses stuck in traffic also.

Similar to how ‘all the cyclists’ break red lights, yet the amount of cars doing same is never mentioned, or all the cyclists with headphones in, but no mention of drivers on the phone while behind the wheel.

02-02-2022 11:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573527#Comment_118573527

What you are referring to is called induced demand and yes it applies to cycling infrastructure but you have to have vastly higher numbers, by a factor of 4-5 I think, to end up with a bike traffic jam.

It does happen though, especially in places with more mature bike infrastructure i.e. Netherlands and places where there is high population + low capacity bike infrastructure + high demand i.e. pinch points.

There are ways around it though, caveat being that not all solutions work for all routes, but things along the lines of making alternate routes with more space, higher capacity, or widening existing infrastructure, or creating things like LTN's where basically the whole road space is shared by cars & bikes, but by design its not possible for cars to reach high speeds and so on.

I think we'll all be long dead and buried before its ever a problem though. You really need a fully connected network to even come close to hitting peak demand for bike infrastructure as the majority will not cycle unless its safe. At the rate Galway is going, it won't have that network until the 2100's

ThePentagon · 03-02-2022 1:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570946#Comment_118570946

Is that section pictured in the tweet not going to be one-way for cyclists, i.e. anyone cycling east will still have to share the road with cars as far as Blackrock?

ThePentagon · 03-02-2022 1:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573527#Comment_118573527

We'll find out sometime between March and September of this year 😄

03-02-2022 8:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573844#Comment_118573844

Yeah but there's space for a two-way cycleway as far as Pollnarooma West so I expect most cyclists will use the empty space to pass up on the right and go down by the caravan park to Blackrock.

The council should just officially make this two-way since making car traffic one-way allows the space. What the exec have done is a bit of work-to-rule as they're meeting the minimum requirements to fulfill the motion.

what_traffic · 03-02-2022 8:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573656#Comment_118573656

Ya thats right, the capacity load is in multiples.

The two way cycle lane along the prom (which is roughly width of a single road lane) will be able to handle greater load of people than the combined two car/motor traffic lanes beside it.

Be great if it was an issue for the temp Salthill cycleway. Not likely though as people have rightly pointed out in a disjointed network like we have here, bike parking I suspect will be the biggest issue / headache for those who wish to stop along the route, but a cycle toaster stands which can handle 10 bikes - takes up space of 1 car parking space. The efficiency's are beautiful!

03-02-2022 9:16am

Interesting development. I wonder will it up the through traffic or perhaps encourage goods to arrive for Connemara by sea & leave the city alone? https://connachttribune.ie/west-can-be-eus-power-bank/?fbclid=IwAR2hXoLf9JsbX3iZuRlS_csBnSIiBOjN-pz9xZHg2_rQLiMzNVRx599XBmo

xckjoo · 03-02-2022 9:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574298#Comment_118574298

Sounds like something that would create a need for a bypass 😁

03-02-2022 9:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574298#Comment_118574298

Yeah the offshore sector is just starting off here and will take a while to get going. We currently only have a few MW off the East Coast but this is going to ramp up in a pretty big way as we exhaust all the onshore locations.

There are plans for large installations on the Arklow bank, off the Cork coast and, so far, 6GW off the West Coast.

However Rosaveal won't play any major part in the installations as Foynes is getting billions to set up a turbine construction facility.

Rosaveal may get something in the way of support and maintenance though, which would be a more of a long-term employment prospect than the initial installation process.

03-02-2022 9:57am

Looks like 7,500 submissions, which is an unreal amount of public engagement regardless of whichever side of view you stand on this issue.

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/127417/unprecedented-engagement-in-cycleway-proposals-says-lyons

As to whats going to happen next, I see it going one of two ways

Trial proceeds as either option 1 or 2, runs for 6 months, reverts back then planning & design for permanent implementation with CPO's to facilitate 2 way traffic
They deem 6 months of one-way as too much of an issue (I wouldn't see why, they've done this before e.g. Lough Atalia, Bohermore) and instead go the full planning/CPO route

Only issue I see with #2 is if they implement something with problems in its design, those problems will be left for years. Who those problems might affect (pedestrians, cyclists, motorists, disabled, elderly etc) is anyones guess.

At this stage, with the volume of engagement this has gotten over the last 2 years, I think its only a matter of time as to when (not if) we'll see safe cycling infrastructure along this stretch of road.

03-02-2022 10:44am

Drove to Salthill yesterday afternoon to go to the cinema - hundreds of empty parking spaces at 130-2 and 430-530 - is all the talk of pressure on parking spaces (and why either bike lane option is viewed as a death-knell to Salthill) only to do with weekends? Do shops not do any business during the week?

Mrs OBumble · 03-02-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574705#Comment_118574705

Very little business there on weekdays during winter.

Summer is a different story.

03-02-2022 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574705#Comment_118574705

The cinema floods that main carpark in the evenings (8-10pm) now - they should be pushed to open up the 250 spaces in Bailey Point which was a condition of the planning.

03-02-2022 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574985#Comment_118574985

Never ever had an issue finding a space there in the evening when going to the cinema.

03-02-2022 12:40pm

Probably depends on the night of the week (date nights) and what films are out. On the last Bond release it was pretty full every night for a few weeks.

serfboard · 03-02-2022 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574324#Comment_118574324

Yep - great news for Ros a'Mhíl, but bad news for the one City "bypassing" bridge.

timmyntc · 03-02-2022 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576155#Comment_118576155

Most trucks etc going to/from Rosaveel to west of Galway city, would be doing so outside of peak hours and wouldnt be encountering rush hours traffic anyways.

CowboyTed · 03-02-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574985#Comment_118574985

This will be a bigger issue as the days lengthen... I have been told that Bailey point car park needs investment to be opened to full capacity... It should have been a no brainer when this plan was proposed but as I said we have crap City Executive... Some people think they do this on purpose to manipulate the system, they don't IMHO, on past performance it is just incompetence, you need certain amount of competence to be Machiavellian...

03-02-2022 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576176#Comment_118576176

Not just a river in Egypt….

To be fair though, I do think the case can be made for goods services across the Bay. The required boats are already in situ serving the islands from the city & are laid up during the day. I’d say they’d be only too happy to take goods to Clare. The only question is- where in Clare do we land them?

03-02-2022 9:14pm

“The claim that cycle lanes were causing mayhem and disaster for ambulances was manifestly untrue.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/13/covid-bike-and-walking-schemes-do-not-delay-ambulances-trusts-say

From the UK, but relevant given some of the claims made recently

ratracer · 03-02-2022 11:20pm

In fairness @[Deleted User] , the very poor drawings and ambiguity given about the design, and the way separation will be achieved on the one-way section and the narrow 2m width shown, make that section unusable to the Emergency Services. So the claims from some of the pro-cycling lobby regarding them being able to use it, because that’s what happens elsewhere, is just not true as it stands! Of course it might be able to be tweaked, but like everyone else from the elected councillors to the various lobby groups, nobody except the council exec and their team of engineers are being told anything of the potential finish of the route. As I’ve said here, they never wanted it and IMO have designed it to fail.

Mind you, a lot of people who really couldn’t give a toss about the ES at any other time seem happy to grasp it as a good excuse to push for No!

03-02-2022 11:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579186#Comment_118579186

Zero argument it not being the best design possible, but then its a trial. I don't know of anyone, for or against, who thinks its a perfect design

The phrase "perfect can't be the enemy of good" is applicable here. For the purpose of a trial its not a bad proposal at all. Its not perfect, it has issues, but for a trial, if this is the best that can be done, then so be it. The data collected during the trial will show exactly what works, what doesn't and where they need to do more work e.g. the one way section may require CPO's or some other alternative design

As a final design, no, I don't think anyone would accept this as a proposal without significant modifications e.g. crossing points, additional disability parking etc etc etc

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't trial it

CowboyTed · 04-02-2022 2:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574728#Comment_118574728

Weekends are very different too... I was down there a couple Saturdays back at 5:30 the car park was full but loads coming and going so a space could be got quick enough... On the prom was the same way...

CowboyTed · 04-02-2022 2:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579265#Comment_118579265

Sorry DaCor, This is a pretty bad design with no parameters for success or failure... I think the cycle lane is the wrong place that is my fundamental problem with the whole design...

I believe there need to be substantial investment but I find this trail so flawed starting off that it will be detrimental...

What it is set up for is to cause division...

By the way I think when these submissions come in we should also get a report of the locations of the IP addresses from where they are coming from...

04-02-2022 11:10am

Changes coming to Parkmore with €450k to be spent on pedestrian, cycle and public transport facilities between the junction of Monviea Road and Parkmore Road, and Parkmore Business Park.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/department-reveals-breakdown-of-e1m-active-travel-works-at-parkmore/

€200 thousand will go towards introducing signal junctions to provide priority to bus lanes on the Monivea Road and Doughiska Road, while the existing pedestrian and cycle tunnel will also be upgraded.
The priority junction at the L7107 and the N83 will be upgraded under a separate €100,000 project – this will also see a localised reduction in the speed limit and the creation of a pedestrian crossing.
A €10,000 investment will also enhance bus and bicycle access to Ballybrit Racecourse, and will upgrade pedestrian and cycle access to Boston Scientific and HP from the Tuam Road.

Regarding the second item above, anyone know where the L7107 is? I'm wondering if its a typo and should it be the L7101, which is the main Parkmore road?

04-02-2022 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579502#Comment_118579502

By the way I think when these submissions come in we should also get a report of the locations of the IP addresses from where they are coming from...

You should ask for that

04-02-2022 11:15am

Here's a piece from a few weeks back. I think it serves as a good reminder that once its safe to travel, a lot of kids and parents will choose an alternative to the car. This in turn frees up capacity for others who have no option but to drive. A win-win all round if you ask me

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/126108/school-streets-pilot-scheme-sees-14-per-cent-drop-in-daily-car-use

04-02-2022 11:55am

Some news on the progression of the N59 works

The N59 Clifden to Maam Cross to Oughterard project was identified in the last national development plan as a key piece of infrastructure to be developed to planning, design and construction. This major project was refused planning approval by An Bord Pleanála in 2016. However the Clifden to Maam Cross section of the project was reactivated in 2020 and is in the NDP 2021-2030. An initial strategic assessment report was submitted to the Department of Transport in April 2021 and an updated report was submitted in November 2021. It is expected the report will be with the Minister for review and decision this year on whether the project will move to the next stage.

The N59 Maam Cross to Oughterard component of the original scheme, comprising 15 km of single carriageway, is now being delivered as a series of minor improvement schemes, the first of which, Maam Cross to Bunakill, was completed in July 2021. While this project is not being progressed in 2022, it will be considered for advancement next year.

04-02-2022 2:10pm

Farmers are objecting to the Galway section of the Dublin-Galway greenway.....before the route is even known

You couldn't make this stuff up

https://irishcycle.com/2022/02/04/fresh-dublin-to-galway-greenway-objections-from-farmers-despite-agreement-on-code-of-practice/

serfboard · 04-02-2022 4:48pm

General (not Galway-specific) point moved to the Greenway thread instead.

CowboyTed · 04-02-2022 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118581360#Comment_118581360

Do you expect any different...

Route select it is specific farmers problem until then its is every farmer problem... Walkers caused havoc before the cyclists got there...

04-02-2022 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582438#Comment_118582438

Walkers caused havoc before the cyclists got there...

We really need to get "right to roam" sorted out but thats a topic for another thread

AndrewJRenko · 05-02-2022 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566831#Comment_118566831

Blackrock traders don't seem to share your views on the success of recent changes;

https://twitter.com/MOR_Action/status/1489875440671985667

https://twitter.com/MOR_Action/status/1489875692145692672

https://twitter.com/MOR_Action/status/1489875943816581124

CowboyTed · 07-02-2022 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585940#Comment_118585940

We have explained this numerous times

Blackrock Dublin has a population density of 4,341/km².

http://www.citypopulation.de/en/ireland/dublin/05008__blackrock_booterstown/

Galway has a population density of 1,475/km².

So lets compare the what these densities mean... Look at Blackrock, Dublin... Higher volume of buildings which give shelter (again Population Density)... Compare that to Salthill Prom which is wide open... This is a chalk and cheese comparison... We are talking 3 times the Population Density... 3 times farther to get from one place to another.

07-02-2022 2:01pm

GCRR heading to the courts

https://twitter.com/paulinegalway/status/1490667901489225733?s=20&t=nZrQVCbbXTrPC_hHeDIAVw

CowboyTed · 07-02-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595112#Comment_118595112

I would have complete ban on all cycling infrastructure until this stopped...

Halt on everything... I would halt the pedestrian bridge as well... Everything..

A vast majority of people in the city want it...

xckjoo · 07-02-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595672#Comment_118595672

So basically if you didn't get what you wanted you'd throw a tantrum and try to punish everyone? Did you leave school in 1st class?

And I would think most of the city want to not be constantly sitting in traffic. How it's done is only important to people closed to anything but their chosen method of transport. I would think the obvious answer is to pick solutions that have been shown to be most likely to move people around more efficiently.

07-02-2022 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595672#Comment_118595672

A vast majority of people want to win the lotto, means nothing though

At the end of the day this road still has multiple hurdles to overcome

Judicial review
Appeals to the SC
Appeals to the ECJ
Public spending code assessment (which is getting tougher to get projects of this type past due to environmental assessment criteria)
There was something else, but I can't remember it at the moment

So yeah, it'll be another 4-7 years before it even gets to PSC assessment, lets say worst case, 7 years, then 1 year PSC assessment, 1 year cabinet approval, 1 year tendering, 4 years fencing/ground prep/construction/safety review, so even if it clears all hurdles, you are looking at around 2035.

At this stage, the next GTS review should be proceeding on the basis the GCRR is not going to happen, design the city with this in mind, then if the GCRR actually happens its a nice little bonus

topcat77 · 07-02-2022 3:38pm

Come on people. This can't be a surprise to anyone! ABP approved this just to wash their hands of a responsible decision. It was always going to go and keep going to the highest level of judicial review.

https://twitter.com/paulinegalway/status/1490667901489225733?s=20&t=nZrQVCbbXTrPC_hHeDIAVw

what_traffic · 07-02-2022 3:49pm

The idea of stopping the clocks for all transport related projects and repairs in the City because a judicial review is been planned for one of the projects is such childish nonsense.

serfboard · 07-02-2022 4:40pm

When are we expecting the Salmon Weir bridge to be closed to traffic does anyone know? This year or next or later?

07-02-2022 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596182#Comment_118596182

The new bridge is planned to open in Nov this year, but I'm guessing it will be late, likely Mar 2023.

The cross city link is with ABP at the moment and a decision is due in Mar, but that will also likely be late given how back-logged ABP are

https://connachttribune.ie/decision-due-next-march-on-new-galway-cross-city-link-bus-route/

Once the cross city link is approved, tendered and awarded, it will take 12-18 months to implement but I'm guessing they will restrict traffic right at the beginning of the works.

the cross city link is the biggest gain in terms of PT journey times so they'll likely want to get the benefit out of that as soon as possible

07-02-2022 5:18pm

Its looking like this will be a big event this Sunday, loads of interest

Its not a requirement, but you can register at the link below

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/community-cycle-tickets-261430514707?aff=ebdssbdestsearch&keep_tld=1

houseyhouse · 07-02-2022 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594847#Comment_118594847

Salthill has a density of over 4,000/square kilometre. That is based on area of 0.9 square kilometres and a population of 3,650.

Sources:

https://www.townlands.ie/galway/salthill/

https://connachttribune.ie/galway-citys-population-just-80000/

I’m not saying the two places don’t have differences, but the population density is similar.

AndrewJRenko · 07-02-2022 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596943#Comment_118596943

And local density isn't really the big issue for either Blackrock or Salthill, as they are destinations that attract people from way beyond their own environs.

CowboyTed · 08-02-2022 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596943#Comment_118596943

Get a bit serious....

That only covers 250 meters of this proposed plan... That is about 1/10th of the distance, that is highly selective picking...

So if this area is so high density following that logic this cycle lane would be far more suited to be in Dr Mannix road then...

houseyhouse · 08-02-2022 1:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598129#Comment_118598129

Claddagh is over 3,000/square km and Rockbarton is around 2,750/ square km. The point is though, if you’re going to make comparisons between the population density in one place and another, do it honestly.

CowboyTed · 08-02-2022 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598205#Comment_118598205

Again proving my point about Dr Mannix road... Claddagh is not near the section of Prom under dispute. Rockbarton populated area isn't near the Prom...

These have to be the selective areas of higher population density... So why aren't you pushing for a cycle lane on Dr Mannix Rd and linking it to Millars Lane... Should be used far more by schools, this is the objection, School kids get very little benefit from the proposed cycle lane when going to and from school...

We are building a Super School site and instead of concentrating in getting as much cycle lane infrastructure around that and connecting it to the main populated areas in Galway, you are pushing for deeply divisive cycle lane on the Prom..

Sorry but this doesn't look one how we are going to bring up a generation of cyclists but more about self grandising now... The Prom is not a very good route for going to and from work... It is not in the heart of a population area and doesn't deliver to a major place of work except town and even at that there are far shorter routes in many cases. It is the most exposed road in Galway City which will curtail usage... Simple Common Sense...

Personally I think you could ask for far more money, join it with other initiatives and could get a lot more... Know many people in Galway who absolutely detest the way this has gone about and are very anti cycling over it... Sorry but this whole thing was very divisive and there will be a lot of tax payers demanding that less of their money be spent on cycling infrastructure...

They will use the pathetic usage numbers for cycling and claim money could be better spent on other ways like Public Transport, Walking, motor/electric bikes...

houseyhouse · 08-02-2022 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599496#Comment_118599496

A lot of the prom and the proposed route is in the Claddagh electoral division, that’s why I mentioned it.

I actually don’t think the cycleway is going to be that useful to me or my family and I absolutely agree that the emphasis should be on safe routes to schools. I would 100% prefer a plan that focused on that. So I’m not pushing the cycle way myself. I think there are pros and cons and I also think that a trial is a good way to get more information about what works and what doesn’t.

I only responded to your point about population density because I’m an insufferable pedant!

what_traffic · 08-02-2022 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599496#Comment_118599496

I think what you propose here should be done regardless CowboyTed, its not about 1 or the other.

Lots of other places in City like the N59 Newcaste /Dangan, like the Thomas Hynes and Siobhan McKenna should both have cycle paths like that on the SQR/BOD. Ballybane Road same.

The moneys involved are pretty irrelevant for walking and cycling stuff, especially when its looking like it will be at least 1 BILLION Euros for 18km of ring road with current inflation - now thats big money!

Galway traffic

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