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ESB eCars

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  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Don't be fooled. Dublin port and Sir rogersons quay are not hubs that should be counted towards the 16 they claim. ESB say they have 16 HPC hubs. High power ones, not any auld charger.

    I actually can't find 16, I can only count 13. Carrick-on-shannon, park Ri Kells, Galway Airport, Galway Plaza, Athlone, Mullingar, Ballinalack, Mayfield, Portlaois, blanchardstown, kilcullen, Ballacolla, Rochestown Cork.

    Frankfield is a single HPC unit which doesn't meet the criteria below. Tuam isn't online. Limerick isn't online. Maybe those are the 3 they're using to inflate their numbers.

    There are three tiers of high power charging hubs – tier one consisting of four high power chargers allowing up to eight electric vehicles at any one time; tier two consisting of two high power chargers allowing up to four electric vehicles at any one time; and tier three consisting of one high power charger and one fast charger allowing up to three electric vehicles charge at any one time. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I read somewhere that ESB networks have a limit of 200kW on a single site without it's own substation and hence the reason for the 150/50 split.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    They love shouting about their 'hubs' when in reality they have;

    1x Tier 1 hub (Mayfield) that struggles to do what it's supposed to, (though it qualifies as it does have 4 chargers)

    1x Tier 2 hub (Tuam) which is not online yet

    12x Tier 3 hubs (one of which, (Portlaois) has the 150kW unit limited to 50kW, so that needs to be discounted as a Tier 3 hub until they get full power to the site).


    As I stated earlier in the thread, they have 1 site on the island of Ireland where 3 ID.4's can charge simultaneously, and it's 2022. (In the coming days we'll be at 3,000 new BEV's on Irish roads in 2022 alone). This summer will be bad, next summer will be worse.... Mayfield will be a year old in 4 months, and we've still no sign of the next Tier 1 hub.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I only realized the other day that Mayfield is limited to 150kW, same as portlaoise plaza but they charge an extra 7c per unit over what's bring charged at portlaoise

    Where's the logic in that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭Laviski


    so long as they (ecars) receive government funds and that leafs are being sold - every new site should have at least 1 chademo plug or two in large hubs such as mayfield.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Portlaoise doesnt work at the moment. Hence why it remains (afaik) on 50kW pricing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Yes, I fully agree with that, but the sites in the middle, that are not a single unit site, or not a Mayfield, like Kilcullen, Park Ri, Athlone, Galway Plaza etc.... (the sites they are by far favouring installing)..... Those sites are being split 50/50 between CCS & CHAdeMO, and it's uncalled for. The numbers of cars out there simply don't back it up!

    by January 1st 2022 CCS/CHAdeMO split was 2:1

    by January 1st 2023, it'll be closer to 3 or 4:1, and so on and so on........

    January 2023 is less than 11 months away, and we all see how 'fast' eCars are rolling out upgrades (hardly any new sites by the way, mostly upgraded sites), and all we see is a continuous 50/50 split between CCS/CHAdeMO (with the exception of a single site... which still isn't working right!).



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Either that or ccs to chademo adapters should be supplied to every leaf owner, either solution is a good one



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭Laviski


    then the HPC 150 units should be CCS only and the 50version to be chademo only?

    at least some agreement on single sites where they are deploying the 50 version units. Ideally ESB should be replicating mayfield on all main artery routes. But as you say they are not eager to do that.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Most people aren't complaining about the number of CHAdeMO plugs, it's the low number of CCS plugs that is causing issues. If the 150kW units that currently have 1xCCS, 1xCHAdeMO were instead deployed as 2xCCS, 1xCHAdeMO all the complaints would go away. We'd still have sites that can charge 3 cars, but all 3 of the cars could have CCS connectors instead of the current common situation where a Leaf ends up taking the CHAdeMO whilst a 3rd CCS car is waiting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    No, at the 150kW + 50kW sites, the 150kW unit should be twin CCS only, and the 50kW unit should remain as is with 1 CCS & 1 CHAdeMO plug.

    @BlackKnight has the stats for all to see. The chances of a CCS car pulling up are about 70% compared to the 30% chance a Leaf/Lexus will turn up.

    Actually the best solution to the problem looks to be the new Tuam site. 4 spaces, 8 plugs, so it doesn't matter what pulls up. An available space means access to a CCS or CHAdeMO plug. And if 4 Leaf's happen to pull in at the same time, then good luck to them! same if it's 4 ID.3's

    I know they are 200kW units so grid connection needs beefing up, but even that 2 unit 8 plug configuration, load sharing 200kW would still be a much better fit than these ridiculous 150+50 set-ups.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Indeed, getting under 17kwh/100,km on long distance motorway speeds even in this weather. Driving at limit on autopilot, heat on auto at 21C. No car better for efficiency at these speeds



  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    That was me. I heard it from a site owner who was talking with ESB about getting a unit installed.

    Not actually limited, but eCars advertise it as 150kW only. Best explanation I got from ECars was basically... 350kW/200kW confused people because they couldn't charge at anything like 350kW when they plugged in. Seems to be a trend of Ecars just making up numbers. 350/200kW was perfectly fine. Make people question it, maybe they'll learn something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I assume they couldn't charge at 350/200 because their cars were limited to 100/150? Yes definitely people need to be taught about what they've bought



  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Yup. Ecars doesn't cater towards the taycan owners of Ireland.

    Annoyingly, both plugs are marked as 150kW, but the thiner cable is 200A, so any 400V car (most cars) will max out at 80kW on that plug. Thicker cable is 350A so a 400V car can pull 140kW from that one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    I would have thought a hub would allow a minimum of 4 cars to be charged. I'd hardly consider applegreen chargers in Birdhill a "hub" for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Speaking of the megaHüb…. How’s she looking?




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    One occupied and 2 out of order... Says it all really, the price doesn't help matters



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Just had a look at the taycan, 270kW is crazy. If I had the money haha



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,021 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Tesla Model 3 peaks at 250kW at a much lower cost

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes but only at v3 superchargers of which there are currently 1 location in Ireland.

    Esb and Ionity and other HPC dont deliver high enough amperage to supply 250kW or near it at 400v.

    Also the Taycan/etron gt curve is much flatter, 18 minutes to 80%



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Amazing how eCars can put the time and money into an information leaflet to be handed out to new EV owners at dealerships and not see that they have plenty of inhouse problems they should be addressing. The comments about the painting of the sites on the quays to me gave the impression the attitude was "aren't you lucky the chargers are there", notwithstanding the history behind the location. They said they would paint them themselves this week, so lets see what they do.

    I still don't get the secrecy around the location of future eCars sites, there's only so many times you can say things are coming before people get fed up.

    No mention of eCars working with local councils, no mention of wait times at eCars chargers, no mention of parking enforcement if spots are ICEd/blocked at eCars chargers, no mention of poor site layouts at eCars sites, etc....

    The only way any notice is taken is if a Deputy raises a question with them or to the DT, and even then they tend to avoid a straight answer. I see Paul Kehoe (Wexford TD) asked a few questions recently about installing charging points at Garda Stations, Defence Forces Barracks, Prisons, Courthouses - would eCars be responsible for this?


    And he also asked if there is "a process by which a person or employer can apply to have an electric car charging point installed in a public area or a workplace car park"

    The response (above) is worth reading

    "A national charging infrastucture strategy is due for publication in the coming months which will set out a pathway to stay ahead of demand over the critical period out to 2030. Preparations are also underway to establish an Office of Low Emission Vehicles. This Office will play an important role in our transition to zero emission vehicles including managing the delivery of EV charging infrastructure across the country....

    In addition, as part of the national charging infrastructure strategy, a destination charge point scheme is being developed by my Department which will provide funding for electric vehicle charging facilities at commonly accessed destinations. In this regard, I am minded to allow certain key publicly owned facilities at which members of the public access state services to apply for funding under this scheme to help provide another critical link in the overall network for public charging."


    I wonder if ESB are just holding on until the OLEV steps in and takes over the whole mess. Why would they bother being too proactive if it won't be their problem much longer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah but why have a Tesla when you can have a Porsche?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think the main reason for so many chademo plugs despite the uptick in CCS cars is simply down to usage, if you think about it the leaf comes in 4 different battery capacities from 24kWh to 62kWh whereas most of the CCS cars start at 62kWh and there are a lot of 24-40kWh Leafs on our roads today

    If you go from Killarney to Dublin in a 24kWh leaf you need many more fast charging stops than doing it in an EV6. Now I am speculating but I'm sure the providers have all this info to hand and maybe that's why they are keeping the chademo plugs for the time being



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,076 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    It has nothing to do with usage. Black Knight had all eCars usage stats and CCS has a much higher uptime than Chademo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    For more frequent CHAdeMO use based on battery capacity, in theory yes but in practice no. Neighbours' early Leafs are all used as local runabouts.

    The first owner may have done mad mileage and with free DC charging but those days are gone.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Jan(ish) Update

    CCS/CHAdeMO split

    My stats say, over the last 2 weeks:

    CHAdeMO has been occupied 28.8% of the time. (13.51 weeks of use) (down 0.3%)

    CCS the other 61.2% of the time (33.37 weeks of use)

    HPC Usage Split

    CHAdeMO - 1.25 weeks of usage (18.5%)

    CCS - 5.49 weeks of usage (81.5%)

    There are a few more CCS HPC plugs than CHAdeMO given Mayfield has 7 CCS plugs and 3 CHAdeMO


    Unit counts

    0 Ultra fast chargers (ESB downgraded them to FAST)

    107 Fast charge units installed (ESB for some reason reclassified loads of Fast units to SCP - they've slowly moved a few back)

    555 Slow charge AC units installed (ESB moved loads of FCP to SCP for some unknown reason - they've slowly moved a few back)

    119 CCS plug units

    128 CHAdeMO plug units

    526 Untethered plug units

    69 Tethered plug units (AC43)


    282 of the newer 22kW AC units are now in place.

    100 of the old units yet to be replaced, and 11 of those single socket AC units to be replaced too.


    AC updates to the new Evolve Smart T unit

    None


    AC units upgraded to DC - 42 of the 50 delivered Bit of a vague number, this is 42 of those units installed, but they're being installed at the "hubs" too.

    None

    New FCP

    None


    Notes

    None

    I've been lazy. I didn't do the stats at the start of Jan, or Feb. Here's the latest though



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Ah, so they are also counting the Twin AC22's as 2 chargers on their number fudge sheet!!!

    I better say no more on facebook for fear of the wrath of the Chair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,515 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Post edited by ted1 on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,515 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    have you a breakdown of what speed CCS and CHADEMO are charging at?


    what’s the average charge time of both ?



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