Star Trek: Discovery - Season 4 - (* Spoilers*)

Stark · 03-12-2021 12:38am

3 episodes in and this season isn't too bad so far. Writing seems generally consistent and coherent, not like the total mess that was seasons 2 and 3. Character dialogue is still a bit naff and quaint. You can just picture someone in the writer's room thinking "wow, this sounds so profound and deep" and it just doesn't translate well to the screen.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 12:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260571#Comment_118260571

Ya they really believe their own sht on the profound stuff.

The latest episode was good definitely the best out of season 3/4 so far. Interesting mystery box that gets solved in 1 episode was nice to see

pixelburp · 03-12-2021 8:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260571#Comment_118260571

"Isn't too bad"? Like, exceeding low expectations, or an improvement over season 3?

As to the profundity element, that's a curse of modern US scriptwriting. Hacks love making those superficial "profound" statements no human being would ever actually utter; you see it a lot on those self-esteem Instagram posts too.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260999#Comment_118260999

Definitely an improvement on season 3 (so far) but I say the same about the first half of every season of DIS

Rawr · 03-12-2021 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260999#Comment_118260999

Alas, "Isn't too bad" doesn't feel like enough of a sign to give S4 a spin. (God I'm being such a sad-sack about this lately, aren't I? :P ) Upping the quality at this stage still feels like some kind of trap, because they'll find some way to f*ck it all up shortly, they are very talented at that. In an attempt to be fair I should wait to see the overall verdict of the season and then maybe watch if it went well. I still feel like I'm going to continue to give this season a miss, but we'll see.

Total agreement on the curse of modern US Scriptwriting. I tend to blame Greys Anatomy; a show which gained its audience initially on the concept of a hospital drama with loads more sex than "ER", which somehow turned into a show where every episode required some kind of profound speech/message to bookend the proceedings of the story. The show somehow remains extremely popular and I feel that the current batch of TV writers see this approach as the standard to ape in their own work. The result being that everything needs to be profound and quote-worthy. Forgetting of course that if everything is profound....then nothing is.

Earlier Trek appears to have rationed this out, so that those really memorable and thought-provoking lines and moments were only occasional. I don't think we'd remember some of the more classic Picard speeches if he was giving 2-3 of them per episode, every episode. Most of what was said usually had more to do with the character relationships and what was actually happening to them.

TheIrishGrover · 03-12-2021 10:14am

Three episodes in and I still haven't finished episode 1. Prob only have a minute or so left in that. Was heading out to pub to meet friends. But the very fact that I didn't bother waiting just those last two mins says it all. I'll wait for another episode maybe and then get stuck in.

As for the price of Paramount +. As has been said, not exactly Netflix or even Disney +. I paid pre-order price of 60 quid for Disney. That's amazing value (IMHO). It is unrealistic but, given the lack of USP (Unique Selling Point) apart from Trek, if I was to pay for P+ the max I would pay would be 36 quid. 3 quid a month.

I know there is more to Paramount than Trek 😀 but much of their catalogue is currently on TV. I can't see them stripping their back catalogue from TV stations as that is a large income. They are not in the position to create big-budget movies like Netflix or eye-wateringly expensive TV shows like Amazon. Disney own EVERYTHING. If they want, they could have a fully-licensed show with Buzz Lightyear and Elsa from Frozen joining the Guardians of The Galaxy and the Avengers in fighting Darth freakin' Vader....... in Nakatomi Plaza!!!

I think Paramount will be a tough sell outside of the US. It will survive. Will tick over but, I bet in 5 years time you will STILL not know anyone who pays for it.

pixelburp · 03-12-2021 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261261#Comment_118261261

Ah yeah I'm not intending on even going near the show until the season's done and we can see where the overall run led. Just surprised by even the faintest hint of positive reception.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261274#Comment_118261274

It's a convenient shorthand that if a character starts a voiceover with "The say..." it's probably going to be some god-awful, superficial piece of profound sounding crap.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261679#Comment_118261679

If your biggest problems with Discovery are the angst, emotions, Bayham or Burnham I wouldn't bother holding out hope for a good season if you are not able to look past those issues.

This stuff is set now and it won't change unless Kurtzmann, Paradise and everyone else leaves which doesn't look likely

pixelburp · 03-12-2021 11:28am

No, for sure. 4 seasons is too much for a course correction at this stage, but you'd wonder how long Paramount see the show running for in general. Rare enough these days series last longer than 4, 5 seasons anyway, especially in this era of streaming and the need for constant new "Content".

Then of course there's Strange New World's. The dark mysterious horse of nu Trek. Apparently already shot, but with almost no footage seen, no release date.

Rawr · 03-12-2021 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261750#Comment_118261750

I sort of suspect that they'll try to pull off the traditional 7 seasons and then close the show. It'll give Paramount+ some guaranteed content for the next few years (I expect them to green-light all kinds of crap in the next year or so), but it would also allow them finish making the show without having to own up to any of the errors they made in its creation. That's really just 30 more episodes to make, which may be feasible if they keep their budget down and avoid paying "Michelle Yeoh"-level salaries (I'm assuming her addition was expensive). The future of the show might be choc full of bottle episodes.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261834#Comment_118261834

A reduced budget would be a great thing for Discovery it needs to do more slow moments. Best part of last season was Vance and Osyraa debating round a table.

So far the budget has remained steadily high

Stark · 03-12-2021 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260999#Comment_118260999

A good bit better than season 3 so far but still way too much of a young adult/teen drama kind of show for me to really say it's good.

David Ajala/Book is very good. Michael is gaining some maturity since settling into the Captain role. I think they might have actually tweaked things since the trailer was put out. In the trailer it gives the impression that she's doing her usual shite of "Screw you Admiral Vance, screw you Federation council, I'm risking all my crew's lives flying Discovery all the way into this anomaly without a thought given" but in the episode she actually makes the kind of mature decisions that any other Starfleet Captain would. Tilly also seems a bit toned down and is settling into a more comfortable Lt. JG role rather than super-XO-Ensign. And there are more stories involving other members of the crew without Michael.

The Adira/Gray storyline is progressing though Gray still seems like a totally pointless character. And the dialogue they have written for him is totally cringe. Seems like something that belongs more on "Chilling adventures of Sabrina" or similar teen drama show than a sci-fi show.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261940#Comment_118261940

Ya that sums it up pretty well better but still too teen lit. Burnham is still doing a bit of the screw you stuff but Tilly is way better this season.

I really hope Grey getting his body means it will eventually lead to him Fing off to Trill or something. Adira is one of the few characters that isn't just a one trick one gear pony but that cheesy Grey character really weights Adira down

Rawr · 03-12-2021 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118262014#Comment_118262014

The Grey / Adria stuff in Season 3 were segments I had a knack of automatically fast-forwarding over. After the first couple of interactions I felt that they weren't there to drive the story and barely worked as character development. It seemed to mostly take the form of Grey grinning at Adria and being encouraging...which started to get very old.

Adria alone could have been developed into something interesting. However like a lot of the good ideas of the show they couldn't stick the landing and kind of reduced the character to "Trill Hybrid with Ghost Boyfriend...(who's friendship with Staments & Cupler turns into an adoption for some reason)". I much preferred "Trill Hybrid with Admiral knowledge who's key to finding Starfleet Command". But alas that lasted all of....what? 2 episodes?

Stark · 03-12-2021 12:43pm

Yeah I think Adira still has potential if they ditch Gray. And they haven't mentioned the creepy adoption thing so far in Season 4 (Did Adira even know about/consent to it!?). Hopefully they realised it was a bad idea and decided to ignore it.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118262264#Comment_118262264

Was she adopted by them?

I know they are looking out for her but did they adopt her

Stark · 03-12-2021 12:46pm

Stamets refers to Adira as "his child" in one of the later episodes of season 3 when they're trapped on the dilithium planet.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118262296#Comment_118262296

Right now I get you. I thought I had missed some adoption story and not just Stamets making a weird comment

flazio · 03-12-2021 2:00pm

So, is the process of building the body referred to as "Grey's Anatomy" 😁

One to beam up.

pixelburp · 03-12-2021 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118262296#Comment_118262296

Season 3 you mean? And I remember that too, I literally did a double take at the time, when suddenly Adira became their adoptive child out of fúcking nowhere. Was a big moment in my fúck this show Road to Damascus.

breezy1985 · 03-12-2021 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118262747#Comment_118262747

I bet Adira makes "studying Grey's anatomy" jokes a couple of times a week

TheIrishGrover · 06-12-2021 6:49pm

OK, so I caught up. Yes, Book is very good in the last couple of episodes. Very fine actor. Some of the cast got more to do this episode. Tilly was quite enjoyable (And relatable) in episode 3 with some actually funny bits.

I really like the Adira character. Played very well. But I don't like their boyfriend. Stamets had some good scenes in episode three but as usual, Burnham got stuck in and saved the day

Oh, you are trying to save this species? Have abandoned your pledge and killed members of your order? Oh well HERE'S your problem. Now, civilisation saved. Where would you be without me

So yes, an improvement but when the main story comes towards endgame then it'll default back to her and her doe-eyed minions

flazio · 23-12-2021 6:04pm

Fellow "UK" people. Is the show sticking to the 9pm Friday (Xmas Eve) Saturday (Xmas Day) and Sunday (Boxing Saint Stephen Day) schedule on Pluto?

CastorTroy · 24-12-2021 1:04pm

Just watched the 6 episodes over the past couple nights.

So Tilly gets a job at the academy despite losing 20% of her students on her first day?

Not a fan of Grey and was hoping when he got his body, he would be going off to continue his studies, but looks like he's now sticking around and will be an "essential" crewmember.

I'm no expert on character development but I'm pretty sure the way to do it isn't to have someone in the background for 95% of the time, come forward briefly, have them tell a story about their childhood then shove them back in the background where they will continue just to look at each other every time Michael says something. Though I might remember Rhys' name, maybe til the end of the season now.

Why not make more ships like Book's since that seems to be the solution to everything? Though apparently he's the only one able to fly it.

breezy1985 · 24-12-2021 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369495#Comment_118369495

Don't be complaining about Tilly's new job. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth

CastorTroy · 25-12-2021 7:48pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1474122702495563783?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1474122702495563783%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com%2Fembed%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1474122702495563783autosize%3D1

Taking a break after next week to make way for more Prodigy

Rawr · 05-01-2022 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372765#Comment_118372765

I guess credit is due to their marketing for being honest about the focus of Discovery in that image. As I mentioned after seeing the Season 4 preview I am at least thankful for them for not trying to hoodwink me into thinking that they would try to improve their writing or move away from thickly laid Michael-centric melodrama. It was clear that this would not move away from a format or style that would just frustrate me further rather than entertain anymore.

We're now mid-season and I have essentially been experiencing the show via these pages here on Boards. The Star Trek gang here seems to have a wide spectrum of tastes, which is refreshing way to experience the show and very much appreciated. I far prefer to read about the episodes here on the various threads than to actually watch them and be frustrated by the results.

Mid-season, the conclusion I have reached so far is that my decision to not bother watching yet is still correct. I get the impression of a show that still has good ideas, but succeeds in ruining many of them though poor execution and a healthy dollop of Burnham. It was always that ruined potential that drove me up the wall, and it appears that Season 4 would do the same to me. In all honesty the only draw I have to watching is so that I can join the episode-thread discussions here on Boards. However it seems wrong for me to join in on those without actually watching the episodes. Thus I'm posting here in the overall season thread.

Ultimately it's the season as a whole that might decide if I watch anything of this.

TheIrishGrover · 10-01-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420482#Comment_118420482

Was actually coming to post the same comment about this image. I REALLY don't know why they just don't call it Star Trek Bernham and be done with it.

As you said, at least last time they didn't even attempt to make this look like it was going to be anything different. But the Part 2 trailer is all about the clickbait again. All dramatic and cool looking. So, you know, taken from the last two episodes. Everything else: "Hope... and the absence of Hope (Hope ALWAYS is capital "H"). Love and duty.

To bring you up to speed. Yes, it is still almost 90% Burnham, to the detriment of more interesting characters/storylines. The last couple of episodes have had an interesting plotline about the computer evolving. For ONCE!!!!!! it didn't involve Burnham suddenly becoming an expert in AI emotions but it was ALL about emotion. It was actually the only interesting thing to happen this season so far.

Rawr · 10-01-2022 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447824#Comment_118447824

Thank you Grover for the summary :)

Yea, I was really getting that impression from my reading. Essentially a decent Trek show repeatedly being eclipsed by its lead character while very little is actually getting done. I was afraid that skipping Season 4 might rob me of interesting information, but I get the impression that a 2 minute read would get me up to speed much better than trying to do a marathon watch of the season (which I can't see myself doing, even if the end turns out to be somehow good).

is_that_so · 25-01-2022 7:23pm

So, judging by some of these latest comments Season 4 is a pass? Have yet to dip my toe in it and there seems to be very little enticing about it.

flazio · 25-01-2022 9:46pm

Watched the first 3 or 4 by stretching my WiFi signal into Northern Ireland on the Friday nights (😏) but the two episodes that aired over the Christmas and New Year weekends I missed and haven't been bothered to look them up or catch-up on what happened in them.

Stark · 25-01-2022 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532185#Comment_118532185

Well it's better than Season 3 for sure though it's still nowhere near as good as 90s era Trek or Lower Decks/Prodigy. A lot will rest with the second half of the season imo. Judging from the trailer, the first half has been largely setup for a high octane second half, it remains to be seen whether they **** that up or not.

Rawr · 26-01-2022 9:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533214#Comment_118533214

Which for myself is the deciding factor of whether or not I'll even watch the season. If I end up reading the finale threads and notice most of the gang voicing frustration...then this season is pretty much a miss for myself.

I guess it's down to each individual viewer's taste on wishing to watch a season or not, but in my case frustrating mis-handling of the material just isn't worth the time anymore. The chance of enjoyment is just so low. I really hope Picard doesn't fall into this category too.

Sleepy · 03-02-2022 1:45pm

The starship itself becoming a blubbering emotional mess was the "nope, I'm out" moment for me...

TheIrishGrover · 03-02-2022 6:32pm

It's.... Yeah, it's not good. Hard to recommend. Yes, better than Season 3 but that's hardly a glowing endorsement. Some interesting ideas but, as usual, solved with emotion by Burnham and Burnham ALONE. Will continue to watch as I haven't quit on a Trek series yet. But not expecting any improvement (Despite the clickbait whizzbang trailer for part 2. We have all been fooled by them before)

Mav11 · 03-02-2022 6:51pm

Yes, it'll never be accused of "boldly going". I'm hoping that the new season of Picard will be better.

a_squirrelman · 06-02-2022 2:11pm

Finally started watching this. I was really enjoying episode 1 until I realised we were looking at a galaxy wide issue again. Burnham’s announcement at the beginning of episode 2: “today we seek to understand a threat like none our galaxy has faced before”, not strictly true, every season has a galaxy destroying issue.

CastorTroy · 09-02-2022 2:44pm

Yeah but not like this one. The previous ones were different galaxy destroying issues. 😃

corkie · 10-02-2022 5:07pm

No thread yet for Discovery S4E08 'All in'?

Spoilers : - https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-discovery-season-4-episode-8-review-all-in/

ilovesmybrick · 10-02-2022 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611515#Comment_118611515

Sorry, got caught up in work, created a thread here, https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058232356/discovery-4x08-all-in-spoilers-within/p1?new=1

breezy1985 · 10-02-2022 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577155#Comment_118577155

To the point where Burnham has now been installed as the head of some sort of Senate that has power to scrutinize the government.

Evade · 10-02-2022 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611555#Comment_118611555

That's hilarious.

breezy1985 · 10-02-2022 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611622#Comment_118611622

But it's also true.

New episode sees the return of an old alien. It's been ripped apart online as the Disco team have needlessly changed the look.

Evade · 10-02-2022 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611738#Comment_118611738

I didn't doubt it was true, it's Discovery after all. Who did they mess up this time?

breezy1985 · 10-02-2022 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612172#Comment_118612172

Changelings are sand now not goo

Evade · 10-02-2022 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612276#Comment_118612276

More pointless change for the sake of change.

pixelburp · 10-02-2022 8:08pm

Hahahaha oh god. This show.

Mav11 · 10-02-2022 8:21pm

Doesn't seem to be going down too well with audiences!!

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s04

pixelburp · 10-02-2022 9:15pm

Given Rotten Tomatoes counts shoulder shrugs as "fresh", I was sceptical critics were that favourable to the point of the surprisingly high 92% (JFC I hate the percentages points trying to imply scientific accuracy).

Indeed I had a look at the 13 reviews and many read as preair reviews, with a bunch only of the first episode complimenting the action and spectacle; while others are indeed, just "meh" at best. 92% me arse; nobody's fond of this.

Evade · 10-02-2022 9:28pm

Rotten Tomatoes' percentage is based on how many critics don't hate the thing. 92% just means 12 out of the 13 didn't hate it which is still too high

Star Trek: Discovery - Season 4 - (*** Spoilers***)

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Star Trek: Discovery - Season 4 - (* Spoilers*)