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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Shehal


    He should get a run in the Ireland team NOT to build confidence but to build experience at this level which hopefully in turn will build his confidence.

    Sure Sexton's performances for Ireland have not all been that good either, he's obviously had amazing days in green but we cant ignore that he has some absolutely shockers as well, no 10 is absolutely perfect and sometimes these players need to fail at this level in order to succeed down the road, I don't see how he was poor against Wales? He wasnt amazing but I didnt see much he did wrong that would say he was poor, plus lets not forget it was Carbery's first match back in two months so expecting him to be perfect was expecting too much. This weekend he'll get a chance from the start with basically a first choice Irish team minus the 11 shirt so this is his chance to shut up all his doubters.


    It is hollow enough but you don't get MOTM if you are anonymous, was Hansen the best player on the park? No, but he definitely was one of the top 5 or so which if Carbery achieves this weekend then I think we will all be happy!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    If Carberrys performances were even a close second to Sextons. Then he would be getting starts. The fact is they aren’t, they are a massive step down from Sextons. Last week was like night and day. I really hope Carberry puts in a performance on Saturday that could put pressure on Sextons place. He hasn’t in the last 18 months though, not even close.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We heard this exact argument with Bill Johnston. He's wasted at Munster, he'd be first choice at Ulster. IRFU need to step in.

    Then he went to Ulster. And guess what? He wasn't very good at all.

    Tbh we've seen nothing from these new guys to suggest they're going to be world class.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    So because it didn't work out for Johnstone, Crowley should just sit tight as 3rd choice?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    He's just turned 22 and he's getting regular gametime. He recently started a champions cup game. Not sure that gametime is an issue. He's very likely to pass out harry byrnes caps before to long for example



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Yes, but largely because Carbery has been injured.

    If Carbery can stay fit (big if nowadays, I know), Crowley is back down the pecking order. Most of his game-time this season has been in the AIL.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Bit early to assume that. Crowley started over ben for a few games so he's not a clear no 3 anyway and who here thinks joeys gona stay healthy anyway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Shehal


    How can someone be a close second to Sexton in terms of performances when they rarely get chances? I didn't notice how it was night and day, what I did notice is the bench was unloaded at around the point when Carbery came on and when that happened we seemed to play a little too loose especially when the game was already dead and buried at this point. Carbery has only started 1 game against a tier 1 nation in the last 18 months yet people think he's supposed to able to step up to Sexton's level, Carbery needs consistent minutes in order to develop, he needs this game, the Italy game & decent time off the bench versus England & Scotland, giving him a token 5 minutes at the end is exactly the reason why we have such little depth behind Sexton, you reap what you sow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    To be clear of he decides he wants to move vest of luck to him but its very early for the irfu to even be talking to him about it yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    We have rolled the dice trying to win a 6N this season.

    That decision was taken instead of the one where sexton is warehoused for the moment and someone else gets the time and experience with a World cup in mind.

    Look at how England have handled Owen Farrell / Marcus smidth.

    Time will tell if we can win the 6 nations this year, and time will tell if we have taken the right approach for the WC.

    Look at how far backwards wales have gone since losing their experienced leader and on field general AWJ.

    One thing is for sure, we are approaching a cliff edge in terms of ability and experience at 10 and it could be a massive disaster for this team.

    The only question is when we fall off that cliff and for me you are better off making that decision instead of that decision being made for you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    You don’t become good enough by being given minutes. If you’re good enough you get the minutes. Carberry has had plenty of minutes with Munster in the last 18 months and none of it screams select me ahead of Sexton. He isn’t going to suddenly become much better by being given minutes. If that was the case Harry Byrne would be on the bench on Saturday not Carty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    What have we seen from Carbery with Munster that suggests he’s a genuine Test level starter? Because if he can’t show it there then I really don’t know how you can consider it possible that he shows it at Test level. This idea that he doesn’t get a chance and we haven’t gotten a look at him is garbage. We’ve seen plenty of him with Munster. And nothing he’s done there has screamed international 10.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Carbery has had plenty of chances to show he's better than Sexton.

    He got his move to Munster where he'd be the first choice 10. There's where you prove you're good enough to get minutes in the Ireland jersey.

    He's 27 this year, and he hasn't come close yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    It’s not even about being better than Sexton, or even being as good as Sexton. That’s a very high bar. Sexton is one of the best players we’ve ever produced. We just need someone who is a genuine Test quality 10. Someone who’s able to move the team about the field, can take advantage of space in the back field and can hold their own defensively, Carbery is the closest we have to that outside of Sexton, but have he really shown he’s high quality in any of those areas above?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Nope. If he's as good as you think, he won't be third choice for long.

    Like everyone else, he trains hard, he takes his opportunities when they come and he moves up the pecking order. If he can't do that then moving him to Ulster is pretty pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I'd actually go further and say Sexton is the best player we've ever had. In terms of talent I think BOD pips him. But in terms of influence and standards set I don't think Sexton can be beat. He also has some personal and team accolades which BOD doesn't.

    Whomever finally replaces Sexton will be on a hiding to nothing as he simply won't be as good. We'll need to recalibrate and change how the side plays.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,423 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    To all of the people complaining about Carbery being selected. Carberry has a really high ceiling, the fact that he's been picked ahead of Carty when Carty's been playing at his peak for the last year, means that the coaching team think that it's a better option to give Carbery the start, to build his minutes in advance of the world cup, than to give that opportunity to Carty.

    Sexton went through a really bad spell of form before and after the last world cup. He was woeful and most pundits called his retirement and Joey was his successor. Then Carbery got a long term injury and Sexton reclaimed his number one spot while Carbery was out of the picture.

    Since then Carbery has played very little rugby due to 2 successive long term injuries, and a broken elbow. By all reports, he's back to full match fitness.

    Of the Leinster options, we know Ross Byrne can do a job for Ireland, we also know that Harry is nowhere near ready for this level, and Billy Byrnes is just about Heineken Cup level. Carty yet get may get another chance for Ireland, but honestly, which province in Ireland would swap their 2nd choice Out Half with Carty at the moment? Certainly not Leinster, Or Munster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Connacht would not swap Carty for the 1st choice 10s at Munster and Leinster. Both would be out injured and neither would be able play at the pace required. Carty plays 80mins week in week out and doesnt need Aki doing first receiver too mine him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    10 years younger then Sexton, hes still a baby



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Farrell has been shown up, we are coming up to a world cup and still has not given enough game time to another 10.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Carbery has delivered in test matches before in a way that no other available Irish 10 has (outside Sexton).

    That's why he gas been picked and that is why he is No.2 on the list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Exactly the man's played in 3-4 all black victories



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    That's a very generous interpretation of things. The only OH who came close to ousting Sexton was Jackson, around the time of the SA tour (not advocating for him, just an example). Carbery has never delivered a consistent level of performance that demanded selection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    We don't know at all that Ross Byrne can do a job for Ireland. He's apparently off to France anyway so kind of moot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,471 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    You're giving him a lot of credit for doing very little. He kicked a great penalty in the recent win, that's about the extent of his meaningful contributions. Compare that to Jackson being a key part of a team that almost (should have) won a series in SA, or Madigan vs France in the WC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Looking forward to seeing how Joey goes on Saturday, it's a pressure game and he'll be under a microscope for as long as he's on the pitch.

    He has a fantastic pack in front of him and a hell of good backline to use so hopefully he plays his natural game and looks to open up France with the ball in hand as much as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Not just against NZ, Carbery also guided us to victory in Murrayfield.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Strand1970


    So can someone tell me how many minutes Carbery has played this season compared to other Irish 10's. In my option Carty should start this week for the reason he is match fit and has been playing most of the season. I actually don't think Farrell would have had Carty on the bench this week only for Sextons injury and probably only had him on the bench for a token 10 minutes vs Italy to fulfill his commitment to consider him if he resigned with Connacht. I just dont get why ireland keeps going back to Carbery. He needs to be playing for munster week in week out to get form. All I hear, his glass ceiling is much higher!!!! but ffs playing a few weeks in a row is also important. I fully understand wrapping up Sexton for the big games because he is world class and has proven it our the years. Maybe Carty is not good enough but let's also give him another chance. My feeling is the young 10s in Munster will surpass both after the world cup.



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