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20% cut to fares for all public transport operators from April

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,884 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The Kilkenny City routes are PSO services and will be therefore covered by the fare reduction. It doesn’t matter who operates them - the State is paying for them.

    Burkes have very limited competition from Bus Eireann PSO services.

    The 52 and 64 are both commercial Expressway routes so are not covered by this announcement.

    The 429 and 456 are PSO but the 429 is one departure per day and the 456 has five. Not exactly massive competition to Burkes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,884 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    OK I will rephrase. The 1-3 stage fare still exists - increasing that would go down like a lead balloon politically. Plenty of people still use it.

    I totally agree about the comms on the fares by the NTA - appalling doesn’t even come close.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    While City Direct cover Cappagh Road, Western Distributor Road, and Clybaun Road pretty much by themselves, they do also attempt to compete on the Salthill corridor, and the 411/412 routing as far as the Bishop O'Donnell Road x Rahoon Road junction is a carbon copy of the 405. In saying that, City Direct is 52 cent dearer than BE on a Leap Card Adult Single already (€1.68 vs €2.20), so I think it's just those determined on time that bother getting City Direct when they can get the Bus Eireann service - and this shows particularly on outbound services where very few get off a 411 service before its unique section on Rahoon Road (then again it helps that the 405 and City Direct Eyre Square stops are separate).

    Well, the difference is going to sting even further, as a 20% discount on €1.68 brings it down to €1.34 or €1.35 - a full 85-86c cheaper. I know I'm not a happy camper here (City Direct is the only operator I have within less than 20 minutes' walking distance).


    City Direct in Kilkenny however is a PSO service contracted like Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, or Go-Ahead, as another poster has mentioned, so one should fully expect them to be covered by the 20% drop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    So it amounts to a kick in the teeth for Burkes customers, who won't get something that other public transport users are getting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,884 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well Burkes is a commercial service.

    Burkes spotted an opportunity for a commercial bus service where the State wasn’t providing one and operate a decent frequency service with no subsidy.

    Are you suggesting that the State should subsidise every single commercial operator and thereby effectively take over all transport?

    Where do you draw the line with an argument like that? The government can only control fares on services that it pays for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    Maybe that wouldn't be commercially viable for them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well there are commercial buses charging less than Bus Eireann so should the state sue them ?

    The amount of bitterness and selfishness around this is unreal. All day here and on the radio people trying to rip it apart because it doesn't save them money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    If a commercial operator can run a route cheaper than Bus Eireann that tells you a lot about how Blue Eireann is run.

    What do you mean by the second paragraph?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    It tells me Bus Eireann are willing to pay decent wages for good drivers whose remit is to provide a public service. This is as opposed to a privateer whose bottom line is money and who cut and ran from their customers during the pandemic. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    Fair enough but the service will clearly cost more. Plenty of people are happy that they can pay less on private providers too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I mean all day people have been ripping into this because they get nothing out of it as if because it doesn't suit them it should be scrapped.

    I'm not paying bills but you don't hear me say fk that €200 cause its no good to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    There's a very simple explanation for the reason that state funded companies continued to run large numbers of services in our towns and cities during the worst of the pandemic and fully commercial operators didn't.

    Bus Eireann Town and City services, like Dublin Bus got significant levels of cash poured to them from the Government via the NTA to keep their services running, whereas the fully commercial operators got very little (and some got nothing at all) in comparison.

    I know some people want to turn this into an ideological crusade, but it's not rocket science to work out that if a company handed large sums of money by a taxpayer in difficult times, it is going to find it easier to run services than companies that get nothing.

    Also did I miss Go-Ahead cutting and running from their services? Why do you think they didn't, since they are a so called privateer?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    What the other poster is talking about, is that in simple terms under EU law, a Government cannot be seen to be funding a state company to compete against a private enterprise, it would fall under all sorts of issues in relation to illegal state aid and not providing a fair marketplace.

    In reality there are very little commercial services that truly compete with PSO funded services. There might be some overlap in terms of routing but generally the routes tend to be quite different in terms of structure, length and speed of service, directness of route, limited stop vs frequent stops etc.

    I do think that we should all be welcoming these fare reductions on publicly funded transport networks. I understand that some people are upset that they will not benefit if they use services that are not publicly funded but that is just the way the cookie crumbles. I doubt these people would be saying it's not fair on BE customers if they got something that the BE pax didn't.

    As LXFlyer has said, there is no chance that you will be seeing the transfer fare in Dublin going to €2.50 anytime soon after this, never say never, but I can't see this happening this year now. It would be politically suicide for the Government to do that, and I would expect Ms Graham in the NTA will know that and use it as leverage to get whatever funding the NTA needs to keep it lower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,884 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Actually I was referring to the suggested abolition of the short fare by another poster.

    But I agree with you - increasing the transfer fare from €2.30 to €2.50 would have caused uproar.

    I’m not sure I quite share your confidence as to the political nous of the NTA based on recent developments, but you’d like to think that someone there could read the room.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I know one well connected person whom all along has maintained that the increase to €2.50 after a promotional period was because the NTA were not guaranteed the amount of funding that they felt was needed to keep it at the lower amount.

    Whilst that still might be the case, recent signs have shown that perhaps the NTA are not as politically astute as they should be as you say so I'm very much on the fence with this one. I can see it from both sides. but the thing that is certain that is going to €2.50 anytime soon must surely be dead in the water. I don't see how any transport authority anywhere could defend it on top of the 20% discount being removed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,489 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Damn those people who built my 'one off' house over 150 years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭xtradel


    What date in April does this begin. I've been checking Galway-Dublin trains for the 5th April but no changes in prices yet, same as when I checked last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I wonder will they give 20% off the discounted early booking price or just the lot rate. Hopefully they do and its most likely gonna just take them a few days to sort out the site but there is also a chance they cant update the site till April



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Well I guess when the public transport to the most well connected city on the island isn't good enough for you, there's no hope.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,961 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    We don't even have an orbital bus route around Dublin, unless you count the shuttle services which use the M50 to get to Dublin Airport.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I wouldn't be checking for the new prices any time this month.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,882 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    This is what I meant, state aid. Where the State distorts competition or the free market. It is unfair for commercial operators



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    It's not the free market, it's a public service bus.

    This is getting tedious. If you don't know how public transport regulation works in Ireland, look it up instead of making baseless claims about state aid.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    If the Government were subsidising a bus to run an almost identical type of service and an almost identical route to a commercial operation, then that would be state aid and would be illegal. But the Government are not subsidising state routes that are identical to commercial routes, which is why Expressway by Bus Eireann won't be getting any of the extra money to cover fare cuts.

    The overwhelming majority of PSO services are not competing with commercial operators and even when there is some overlap, it's small and generally the routes are there to serve different kinds of customers and would be aimed at a different target market.

    I hate state aid against commercial enterprises and for me it's something that really gets my goat. But trying to portray the cuts in fares to PSO services as being a form of unfair state aid is quite frankly nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,131 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    deleted.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    For Irish Rail Intercity fares, the 20% will surely be off the advertised standard fares per the fare table. Most intercity tickets sold online are already discounted, so the discount won’t be off these.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Already delayed?

    The National Transport Authority will work with the public transport operators in the coming weeks with a view to rolling out these fare reductions across the public transport network in early May.

    You would think taking 20% off the fares would be as easy as updating the ticket machines.



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