Kurt Zouma thinks it's funny to use a cat as a football

Well I'm not a vegan but I do think he makes some good points & I don't you've made any, you just called someone "woke" & think that's an argument. Too bad they don't have debating clubs in school anymore.

Your response to the author above is that he missed the philosophy class "where humans are recognised for exhibiting a whole range of often contradictory behaviour and ideas", which seems to be you agreeing with the sentiment of the article about the hypocrisy as if the author is just pointing out the obvious.

Your next post is then saying it's total BS that anyone who protests the exploitation of one animal, while paying for other animals to be exploited, is a hypocrite. So ironically, your posts are contradicting each other.

Rather than just throwing around buzz words and making them sound like an argument, can you give a rational and logical rebuttal to the actual points being made?

Also, you don't need to be an animal lover, human lover or any other lover to recognise that it's wrong to cause harm to someone when harm isn't necessary. I think all but a few renegades are in agreement that what he did to the cat was wrong. I haven't seen anyone say that people shouldn't be upset with the footballer, if they pay for exploiting animals in other ways. I think all upset towards the footballer is warranted whether people who are upset also contribute to other forms of animal exploitation. The points being made are, that for those who are upset (most people), they should also question their principles when it comes to the exploitation of other animals.

Look out the window, it's **** everywhere and the internet is the sewer of civilization.

It's a ridiculous article that is completely missing the point.

HE KICKED AN ANIMAL AROUND THE PLACE TO AMUSE HIMSELF.

I love meat, I know where it comes from. But I'm not a sick fcuk that hammers a defensive animal around the place for a laugh

I think you're missing the point of the article. By consuming animal products, you're paying for similar and worse to happen to other animals when it's unnecessary. Pleasure is the driving force behind each. His reason being some kind of sadistic and less common form of pleasure, than your and many other's sensory pleasure reason. To the victims, the level of harm is the same no matter what the reason is.

One eats to survive. I wish to eat meat.

You may argue it's unnecessary. But the simple difference is how he treated that animal is absolutely of no comparison to how the vast majority of farmed animals are treated.

Kicking an animal because you get off on it, and eating a burger are not comparable and it's no more than clutching at straws for that journalist to do so

To say that the end result is the same is also being disingenuous. Animal cruelty is wrong, I don't agree with that, but eating meat that is sourced from animals that are not mistreated is not the same thing what so ever.

Again you're just completely ignoring all points being made, questions being asked and failing to offer any rebuttal to them and feigning a "dishonest discussion" as reason not to engage in an actual discussion.

I don't have to argue it's unnecessary. It is unnecessary. Do you not think the very essence of ending a life of somebody that doesn't want to die, long before they would die naturally of old age is mistreatment? What do you define as mistreatment? What about standard practices and living conditions on UK farms, sold under labels of red tractor approved, high welfare, RSPCA approved, free-range and organic?

https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/

What about standard practices in Australia? Can you honestly look at this and say the animals aren't mistreated?

And if you're about to say that doesn't happen on Irish farms, here's footage taken in Ireland:

You argue it all you wish, but you're predictably meshing an ethical debate of eating meat and being cruel and sadistic towards an animal. The ethics of eating meat is one I've no interest engaging in or wasting my time with.

Post all the YouTube videos you can feast on, it's not a reflection of Irish farming.

I'm more than happy to invite you down to our farm. You can even bring your camera with you. But Irish farmers are already (amd quite rightlt) up to their tonsils with regular inspections from various departments.

You don't believe people should eat meat. Good for you. I do. I like meat. I also like animals.

Don't blend animal cruelty and sadistic abuse with agriculture to try further your agenda.

The treatment of animals for food production certainly is grim in a lot of cases. I try and buy free range and organic as much as possible. I believe it can be done much better. I don’t have an issue with an animal being killed for food but I hate cruelty to animals. As someone said earlier in the thread for some of these animals their entire existence is basically cruel.

Im not going to deny there are some great points being made on that matter here. For many of us it’s out of sight out of mind and it shouldn’t be.

Im eating much less meat now than I ever was and eating more and more veg, nuts, seeds, fruit and legumes.

I totally 100% agree with this.

Like you, I went free range, farm gate and organic first, but it still did not sit right with me.

I had a problem with food chain - how can a chicken be sold for 2.99 without cutting corners in welfare. The problem is people want the standards but dont want to pay.

This is the reason I stopped eating meat. If I felt there were higher welfare standards that I could be totally confident in, ie, farm gate, I would not have stopped eating meat.

I eat eggs, but only from someone I know that has their own (rescue) hens.

Having said that, I never push my opinion on others. I find the other side more aggressive - a shop advertises a vegetarian/vegan option on social media, and you have all the aggressive get yourself a burger whiners. I find people are more aggressive towards people who do not choose to eat meat, than the opposite.

Ireland has a very poor record on animal welfare. Puppy farm capital of Europe (even a State Solicitors mother ran an unlicenced puppy farm), the urban horse abuse, and a case where a Department of Agriculture official was convicted of cruelty to cattle. There are numerous cases.

I feel all awareness to animal welfare is good thing and believe its unfair to criticise someone who does not agree with the cruelty to the cats, but still eats meat. It is a slow and evolving journey.

Are you going to disregard my whole post because I didn't specify a film crew following the animals you've reared to whichever slaughterhouse you use to end their life prematurely and you assumed because of this lack of specification, that I thought you slaughtered the animals on your own property, thus rendering me knowing nothing about the topic?

So are you going back on your offer to allow a film crew take footage of the entire process from birth (and what their mothers go through to become pregnant) to slaughter?

Blade Runner does not count.

Go see the Teotihuacan, Aztec, Mayan & other Mesoamerican pyramids in Central America some of which are 2,300 years old.

Or the Olmec Heads some of which are 3,000 years old.

I'm not a vegan but if it was illegal to buy & eat animal meat I'd be fine with it, I don't eat much meat as it is.

Dairy products I think should still be allowed.

Dairy would be a more cruel industry than meat as the animals are subjected to years of abuse and in the end, they are still killed against their will, long before they would die naturally, after they have been exploited so much that their bodies are no longer profitable producers. Both meat and dairy are unnecessary and if you agree that it's wrong to cause harm where harm isn't necessary, then logic dictates that both should be opposed according to your principles :)

He is just looking for a reaction.

Still spoofing I see. You are waffling on there like I've never seen. You're knowledge of agriculture is pathetic. You may as well argue about nuclear fusion because you likely know as much about that as you do this. It'd not possible to have an objective opinion when your knowledge is below baseline basic

A zealot doesn't need facts and information of course. Just a determination to waffle on and push their views

Educate yourself a little before you waffle on the Internet talking absolute piss

What about my post that you quoted is spoofing? You've consistently failed to give any actual rebuttals to anything I've posted, failed to provide any evidence that what I'm saying doesn't occur in standard farming practices of which most animal products are a result of, or answered any of my questions, and like others, are just responding in a way that attempts to discredit me while throwing in a few buzz words.

I would'nt bother replying, you're simply wasting your time. It's the same extremist shrilling on Facebook, twitter practically word for word.

Bizarrely according to the same spiel, the long term aim is to end the practice of keeping all domestic animals including pets. Strange then that the discussion being pushed here is just about farming but feck what been called the 'evils' of keeping pets simply because its much easier just to throw **** at farming.

Like the claim that cows normally live to 25 years. I looked that up. Your average wild herbivore is lucky if they make it to 4 years of age before they're eaten alive or die a very nasty death from drought or disease. With cows on farms are kept for at least 8 years and are looked after, fed, protected from predators and get vetinary care. Ireland and the UK has good animal welfare laws so that if cruelty does happen people are prosecuted and rightly so.

There's no point arguing with this crap. It's just an excuse for preaching, and if you reply, it's even more crap with a bunch of extremist videos thrown in for extra effect. And still not one word about the cat or even football.

Do you actually believe farmed pigs are treated well in Ireland and live good lives? Do you not think it's cruel that hundreds of thousands of male calves are taken from dairy farms very young and shipped abroad to places with terrible animal welfare standards like Libya?