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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We've made a lot of progress in the last 18 months. Looking back at the performances against France in the Autumn Nations Cup and the 2021 6N it's clear that we're a much better side. Unfortunately so are they.

    In previous games against France, they bent our defensive line out of shape and cut us apart with their handling skills. This time, other than in the first minute, I didn't feel there was the same danger of them playing through us or around us.

    They hammered us at the breakdown because they were so afraid of what we'd do with quick ruck ball. This is down to the development of our attacking shape in the last year. For the most part the French strategy worked, but when we actually managed quick ball, we scored with JGP.

    I'm disappointed we lost, but it's not the same feeling as last year or in November 20. This time we know we're building towards something and can see the improvements made. We also have areas we now know we need to improve upon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭almostover


    Now is the time to give Coombes a run out in the 6N. A game v Italy is ideal for him to cut his teeth. He has things to work on too in his game but he's the only back row option that we have that could be described as a brute. He's a huge man and very strong in the carry. Doesn't have the all round game of Doris or Conan but he's has that raw power that few have. He's a very good handler of the ball too. Waste of time playing him at 6. He's an out and out no.8.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Not sure. Ideally you'd like your no.8 to be a skilled footballer, who can play the wide channels, offload and link play, while also carry hard (well I would anyway).

    Doris is more suited to playing in the tight IMO. He's strong, high work rate, tackles well, and is good over the ball.

    There's something about the way he takes contact that I don't quite like. It's like he tries to squeeze out an extra yard but in doing so he falls the wrong way and leaves himself exposed for a jackal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Conan was quiet today but made the most meters out of the forwards last week and was very good. Dorris was poor ball in hand but our best defender, he still made more meters than Beirne who was our least effective ball carrier so not sure how moving him to 6 would fix the physicality side.

    I would have had Coombes on the bench ahead of POM, he would have added physicality but saying that he hasn't hit the heights of last season so far.

    Big over reaction by a lot of people looking for lots of changes after a close loss away to possibly the best team in the world(SA would have something to say).

    We got off to a bad start, made lots of mistakes, looked dead and buried at half time but fought back and could have won. It hurts to lose but still think we're in a good place and can still win the tournament.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    We are in a much better position than I thought we'd be in 18 months ago. We were in this til the end. That's a fit, big French side. It wasn't so long ago, when we would expect France to implode and fall apart. I think the French coaching team has really improved the fitness of the team. Factor in the bench they have and I think we didn't do too bad!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,996 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I think the biggest loss from Sexton's injury was on field leadership. Carbery played well but he's not a Sexton personality and we're short on real leaders at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Yep

    This team has been on an upward curve since March last year.

    We lost by 6 points away against probably the best team in the world right now. And if one or two things went our way and we made better decisions we would have won.

    We're in a good place.

    We'll be back for them in 18 months....



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,996 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Anyway, not a disaster today but we definitely need more grunt up front. Beyond picking Henderson I'm not sure where we will get it.

    Against Italy, I'd like to see Sheehan and Bealham start. I presume Henderson and Henshaw will too. And we should keep Carbery even if Sexton is fit, another game will do him good.

    Replacement loose head is a huge issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I agree re: JC. He should get the start v Italy. I expect Henshaw and Henderson will start. I'd like to see Casey get the nod too. Our scrum halves have been mediocre at best.

    Carty should also get valuable minutes. Porter needs the experience at scrum time, so I would leave him in. I would like to see Timoney get some time and I would make Henderson the capt. That's assuming Ryan is rested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    It's difficult for me to see how Murray gets to the world cup! Unless he's commentating. He's very poor, and he is well off the pace. JGP was poor too, but he looks the part when we function.

    It's probably time to give Casey a start or 2. He couldn't be as ineffective as Murray! Who knows, he could usurp JGP. Doak should be included in the summer tour!

    Healy didn't make a dent either, I think he will be jettisoned this summer. He's just not up to the pace. It's like watching Mike Ross lumbering around. Who comes in? That's the problem. I don't think there's any lh that has raised their hand. But going into a world cup with Healy going on fumes is not going to help.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Agreed Marmion should be in there. Both 9 were shocking. Was surprised at how poor keenan was today. it was his first away game with a crowd but id start lowry the next day. Carbery did well given his lack of gametime and should start the next day. Doris made a huge amount of errors seemed spooked by the physically. Beirne or Coombes will need to start in the backrow against bigger teams.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 lfcheaven-1892


    Jack Boyle [LH] has produced two consecutive impressive performances for the U20's and appears the part for the professional game in the foreseeable future. Munster are also searching for a Prop to replace Archer, which could open an opportunity to sign Oli Jager [IQ] from the Crusaders, despite his desire to play for the AB's, I believe a tempting offer of immediate International Rugby could persuade him to sign.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    French pack were brilliant but I can’t help but feel SOB, CJ and Heaslip would have imposed themselves more. Ireland just lost the fight.

    Henderson is prob the only viable option right now for games v Fra, Eng and SA. Unfortunately Conan and JGP did not perform when on the back foot.

    Struggling to find positives this morning for the pack. I was expecting a big game from Kelleher but Sheehan really delivered.

    We need more power in games like this. Perhaps we should be looking to tailor the approach for specific games.

    e.g. back row of vdF, Baird, Beirne and/or a 6/2

    i can’t see a different result if we were to play France in a QF without stacking in as much power as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Big mistake making ryan captian. In time that experience might stand to him but he wasnt ready for it. He wasn't near vocal enough and when the time came for a cool head to make a ruthless decision and a chance to take the lead he took the pressure off himself and opted for 3 points which blew out shot at the win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Michael Zozimus Moran


    Just wondering for any of the stats gurus how many turnovers France won. Literally every time we went to deck they were over the ball.

    Not sure if it was the centres Moefana especially or was it Jelonch. I have never seen that much ball poached and threatened on the ground.

    And it wasn’t Park or speed to ruck on our part just unbelievable technique by the French



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Our breakdown work on our own ball was fairly poor I thought .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Gibson Park was pretty poor.

    When the game was won and lost in the first 10 minutes he was terrible.

    Bad decision making, Poor nothing box kicks, missed tackles and poor passes left to right.

    Cost us very dearly.

    I know I have been banging this drum on here for awhile but I just don't see his all round game being good enough to be our starting scrumhalf at top top international level.

    Casey isn't the answer either. We badly need to get game as much game time as possible into Doak.

    Enthralling match to watch apart from that. Carberry needs to start v Italy and bring Johnny on if fit. With the GS gone it should all be about building toward the WC.

    Porter is still an infant in terms of his games at loose head. A tough day like yesterday could be the making of him.

    Balacoune should get game time ahead of Conway too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Michael Zozimus Moran


    Yes but that comes with inferior size. Technique only works if there is support in greater numbers on the ball and breakdown or you will get blown off the ball.

    They attacked the ball in greater numbers and with greater intensity for longer periods. Certainly not a French looking team. Maybe Edwards has improved their mindset to the point they are functioning like pack animals.

    And don’t get me started on VDF he’s one of the best sevens in Europe right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    JGP wasn't the reason the game was won or lost in the first 10. There are multiple reasons for a poor start.


    He put in a box kick which Hansen chased but as the ball went out Hansen turned his back and ran away which allowed the quick throw in. Is Hansen to blame? Or the several other players who switched off?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Jager is an interesting one.. leinster signing Alalaatoa has opened the door for him at crusaders to try and nail down a starting Jersey there and ig he does he could realistically make his debut during irelands summer tour to NZ.

    He is out of contract this year. Munster,/ Connacht/ or ulster and the Irfu should be putting a sizeable contract offer to him to get him back to these shores..

    I know he turned down a contract offer before so he might stick to his guns again but it's a position ireland need additional cover in especially with Porter now at loosehead.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Ireland's main problem last night was that they were away to France. Both sides were full of talented players. Both sides made mistakes. Both sides were nervous. We can change that for next year's 6n!

    I also think that England Wales and Scotland will have been watching this with interest. England especially. France were poor under the high ball and dominant in the breakdown - two areas where England will look to take advantage of them.

    It's not over yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Michael Zozimus Moran


    Gibson Park had one woeful pass to Porter but the difference he makes to tempo, sniping and decision making is unrivalled in Ireland right now.

    I can’t understand someone having such a comprehensive opposition to him like you have had literally since you set up your username.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Gabin Villiere made a huge turnover, bounced several defenders and ragdolled Keenan into touch. It's not all about size, the technique and pashun of the man has to be applauded.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭fitz


    The timing of when the French drove their counterrucks was seriously impressive too...always seemed to shove just at the right time to cause some disruption to the scrum half, even if they weren't going to turn-over. It absolutely wasn't just about muscle yesterday, it was technique and smart play.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I've watched him play fot leinster over the last 5 years and the hurricanes and blues before that.

    He has never been a starter at any of his clubs. Yet ireland pitch him in as starter and even play him for a full 80 minutes in some games when he isn't up to the standard. I can't understand that.

    If his decision making is unrivalled in Ireland we are in more trouble than I thought.

    He is a good club player.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,996 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    On the plus side, the debate about second choice out half is over, thank f**k.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,764 ✭✭✭irelandrover




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭highball14


    Definitely learnings to be taken from it but the outlook can’t be too negative, we lost to the best/ most in form team in the world by 6 points away from home! In terms of building for the World Cup if we won that game yesterday, I’d nearly be worried that we had peaked and we would dip yet again for the World Cup. At the same time other options have to looked at against Italy. I’m thinking Baird, Coombes, Casey, Hume and Balacoune, and Carbery has to start again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Looking back on the game, I don’t get all the doom and gloom. Yes we lost and that always stings. We lacked accuracy at the breakdown, something that’s absolutely vital to the way we play. Teams have coped on to that since the AI’s and will actively target us there. We will get better though. There were a lot of positives in what was a great game of rugby. We will learn from that and move on.



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