Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

McEntee launches Garda recruitment drive. Is this just lip service?

Options
245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 30,598 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I do wonder how many Gardai will be retiring for the to recruit 800.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Policing should be more visible and present in problem areas yes, but a RoboCop corps of police officers up and down the country isn't desireable or necessary, and you'll probably find it generates more problems than it solves if you got your wish.

    For all the problems that China has, in 13 years living there, I never once felt afraid walking around (except in the countryside or outer suburbs), because there was a police van/office on every street corner, or within sight of two corners. 12 million people in the city I lived in, and violent crime was mostly a rarity. Still happened, but the police (even with the problems with corruption and crap) managed to keep the areas mostly safe. Far safer than what I've seen or heard of, since I returned home two years ago.) Whereas in the non-policed areas of China, things were more... dodgy, but still better than here.

    There is a lot of value in maintaining a police presence on our streets, and roads. Seeing the police cruising around at night would help in a major way, even without having actual boots on the ground. TBH I'd be hard pressed to remember the last time I saw a Garda officer just walking around in the evening. Maybe that happens in Dublin, but... in my hometown of 21k people, it's rare.. very rare. I see them the odd time in Galway city, but not really that much either.

    There is a chronic shortage of police presence on the streets of Irish towns, and cities...

    However, more Police is not the answer, by itself. More Police, better sentencing, and actually keeping criminals in jail to properly serve their sentences would contribute the most towards resolving our problems,



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Fistfights on the street or drunken public order events are rarer in China, but there's plenty of violence behind closed doors if you want to go looking for it. People beating the crap out of their wives or children or mass stabbings at the extreme end of things. Why you see less public order incidents and visible violence in the public realm is a matter of conjecture and probably best suited a long anthropology essay and less to do with police boxes. The roots are likely hundreds or thousands of years old. China is a shame-based culture, and the philosophy of Legalism (which still manifests itself today in ways in China) meant collective punishment of families or even communities for the actions of an individual was the norm for a very long time.

    I saw more than a few instances of hair-trigger violence from typically middle-age males who drive a German car, wear polo shirts smoking Zhonghua cigarettes (I'm sure you know the type) when they felt they were affronted by whoever. It's less random, but the ugly side of China and violence is right there under the surface.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    the mass stabbing seems to be the Chinese equivalent of the high school shooter.. Pathetic adult male, stab attack on primary schools usually.

    They had a few jihad mass casualty stab jihad attacks on railway stations a few years ago. The chinese state came down hard and they are over. I am sure France wishes it could act the same way



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 60,709 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Right now there are is about 1 Garda to every 345 people in the Country with an extra 800 added will make it about 1 Garda to every 325 people in the Country.

    Is anyone really going to notice that difference especially when those 800 are out and about on the beat using that TD's example walking from the Spire to St Stephen's green realistically that's no extra Garda at all or at the most just one that stretch.

    The main streets of most towns in Ireland could do with extra Gardai walking them every night not just Dublin City Centre.

    800 Gardai won't put a dent in how many are needed and those already here are wasted arresting the same Adam and Paul's for the 400th time on to see them get the same slap on the wrist for the 400th time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Essentially that's what your post amounts to though. The problem is we've had at least forty years or so now of the whole "oh the poor crims, it's not their fault, it's their environment, if only we try to understand them and give them more welfare they'll stop being scumbags." In fact the opposite has happened. The growth of welfare dependency and the entitlement culture means that the concept of personal responsibility has gone out the window. Allied to this we have the lenient judicial system whereby thugs are free to roam the streets with 70+ convictions, knowing they can keep being scumbags with little or no consequence. And at the bottom of this pyramid of nonsense are the Guards, who are actively discouraged from using physical force to uphold the law. No one wants a return to the days of the 1970's heavy gang but cops who aren't allowed to touch toe rags for fear of being disciplined is obviously a recipe for disaster.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's 800 being recruited this year.

    how many are leaving? How many have joined over the last few years?

    This will make no visible difference at all. In the years since the commissioner took over, there is the highest number of gardai ever but yet the lowest ever visible presence. There are no small local stations left in the country, no local guard living in the station house in the village. They have all been centralised into bigger centres, further away. There are hundreds of kilometres of the countryside that never see gardai, particularly at night time.

    North inner city Dublin has no visible Garda presence, South inner city however is the opposite. How is that allowed to happen?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Well done Rambo. Give yourself a pat on the back on how macho you are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fistfights on the street or drunken public order events are rarer in China, but there's plenty of violence behind closed doors if you want to go looking for it.

    Of course there is.. But in terms of general public safety on the streets, it is a far safer environment than what is currently happening in Ireland. Oh, I'm well aware of how common domestic abuse or inter-couple violence that occurs, just as I know that school violence is a real problem that they've been forced to confront, but that's neither here nor there. China being a traditionally shame based culture is one of the interesting things about the culture, in that it's encouraged but many people resist living that way. The point was about having police around in an obvious way, and that it does improve things.

    I don't feel safe on the streets of my hometown in the evenings or at night. I did in China. That's the difference that is important. Even in a city twice the population of Ireland, I felt safer there, than in a mid-sized town in Ireland of 20k people.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭malk518


    Just more noise. Will go the same as their international healthcare worker plea during the pandemic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    That's why I'm trying to figure out whether this "recruitment drive" is just McEntee's attempt at lip service, something like her laughable social media posts about the supposedly affirmative action of on An Garda on public and private transport.

    What Ireland requires is that cultural shift away from the scum-bag'ery and trash that it hasn't had the minerals to stand up to and address, essentially since its inception.

    A song and dance being made about 800 police officers, I means realistically what impact is that going to have on so much a single locale or district, let alone the culture of an entire nation?

    IMO it just looks like a scapegoat measure and attempt to throw a blanket over - not the situation - but awareness of the situation, and side step her obligation as minister for justice to address it.

    Irish police force needs a revolution, not a pity pat on the back that this weak attempt from McEntee is evidence of.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,722 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Really?? Wow who knew Athlone was so tough. I’ve only been there once or twice for a visit but it seemed benign enough for a small town? (I live in the west) Why do you feel that the environment there is more dangerous than in some bigger cities?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Athlone has improved hugely over when I was a teenager there, although that's not really the point. Last weekend a group of teenagers chased a man in his 30s through parts of the town, and beat the crap out of him. That wouldn't have happened if there were Gardai patrolling, and that it was reliable known element... but instead, it's rare that you see any Gardai on the streets, except around the cop shop itself.

    And I didn't say "some bigger cities". I referred to China because they have a police presence almost everywhere in their cities... and it shows in how little crime happens around them. It was in relation to a point another poster made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2




  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    There are no small local stations left in the country, no local guard living in the station house in the village.

    There are still hundreds of small "one-man" Garda stations in the country remaining. I would suggest closing them all - I'm not sure what role they play in law enforcement in the country - waste of human and financial resources. 150-200 regular police stations would be more than enough for a country of Ireland's size, instead of 550+ we have now.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No there are not, they have closed most.

    the role they play is that the guard is part of the locality, he knows everybody, he knows family dynamics, he knows neighbour feuds, he knows if someone has domestic family issues, he knows strangers in the area. He knows what goes on. He is also accessible to his community, people might approach him in a 'off the record ' type of way, have a chat outside the post office etc tell him something that they wouldn't think important to bother gardai about, in a normal day.

    he has the local knowledge and the trust of the community. Calling a station in an emergency, 50/60 km away looking for a car, which drives in and away again, with no interest whatsoever in what happens in the community, is a massive step backwards in policing in this country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    The power of arrest is not needed for most of those types of jobs. Specialists can be hired directly for them.

    Guards need to be doing jobs that requires them to use their mandated powers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those one man stations serve as resting spots for the Gardai sent out on patrols in the countryside. The vast majority of Gardai are aimed at the population centres but they'll be sent out to "show their presence" in the rural areas, and drop off in those smaller stations for a cup of tea, or whatever. I don't know the ins, and outs of it, but I've had friends in the force talk about it a bit.

    A big problem with Ireland is that we've seen Gardai taken away from rural areas so that they move to Dublin or the other population centres.. but I'd be curious as to how effective that has been.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not at all. I've seen enough films with Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan to know that they are all kung-fu master triad gangsters. Although a great bunch of lads at the same time.



    Sure Bruce even beat Chuck Norris 😮



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,093 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    @Sugar_Rush Give this article from October last year a quick sconce. Basically, 300 retiring per year, aiming for the end of 2024 figure of 15,000, which will require 600 new per year, which is actually only 300 new per year. Drop in the ocean. Pointless tbh.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40717725.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Need more prisons and harsher sentences.

    20 strikes and your out

    5 strikes and if not an Irish citizen you are deported



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    That article does of course highlight funding as being an issue.

    Going on those numbers it seems pretty dramatically improbable we're going to have sufficient street Garda presence any time soon.

    i.e. it seems north Dublin's feral scaldie subculture will continue to use the streets as their playground with impunity.

    Not to mention the unchecked shit circus on public and private transport.

    Residents of Inchicore, Crumlin etc will just have to accustom themselves to having their lawns destroyed by dirt bikes and communities ravaged by car theft and all that associated trash chest puffing.

    ...........

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    ........ but what surprises me coming out of this thread is, lack of awareness of some of the realities of dealing with this type of person (scaldies and their trash girlfriends).

    It's almost a cliche, "violence is the only thing they understand".

    Now I don't mean garda should start using the long batons at free will, but as I mentioned, "understanding the potential threat of violence = the greatest deterrent against the manifestation of violence".

    .......

    People are funny like that, especially trash sub demographics that have nothing worthwhile in their lives outside of the deluded fantasy that they're "bad boys" or "bad girls".

    It's only when they realize that you'd beat their ass that they settle down.

    I guess no one wants to cross the line into police brutality but last time on Talbot street I witnessed an armed garda being made shit of by a bunch of adolescent scrotes who were blatantly indulging in damage of public property (tearing bikes off bike racks), and he literally couldn't do a thing about it.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I guess no one wants to cross the line into police brutality but last time on Talbot street I witnessed an armed garda being made shit of by a bunch of adolescent scrotes who were blatantly indulging in damage of public property (tearing bikes off bike racks), and he literally couldn't do a thing about it.

    I'd say quite a lot of people would like to return to the time when violent teenagers, drug dealers etc were brought behind the copshop and given a sound beating, knowing that if they continued that behaviour, they would get beaten again.

    However, that time is gone. There's not going to be a return to that kind of response. Official or unofficially. Times have changed.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gardai cannot assault people. They will find themselves in court pretty quickly if they did. You have a strange idea of law enforcement and the law in general.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I may be off the mark on this one and i if so i am happy to be corrected. A few months ago i needed to call to the local station to have a form signed. While there i noticewd these two skinny girls that were ban Gardai... I was thinking what use would they be in a situation that become aggressive on a Saturday which i expect is part of policing... There was also a ecomplaint from the Gardai conference about Gardai being assaulted while on duty. Do we not need a tough cop approach for criminals, robbers and people being assaulted on the streets and in their own home. I think if people of slight build want to be Gardai they need to be armed for protection (safety in the workplace) I seen recently recently there is a drive to recruit more female Gardai and just wonder if anyone agrees with this comment...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,501 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Hard to see them even hitting the 15,000 figure tbh. Can't fill intakes as it is. There isn't a hope in hell of 800 being recruited this year.

    Some amount of resignations too.

    I wouldn't be surprised if manpower was closer to 14,000 than 15,000 by the time 2024 comes around.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll honestly say that having a mostly unarmed police force is a great thing, although I do think it needs to backed up by governments willing to support the police properly. I wouldn't want Ireland to go the way of France, Spain, etc having most police armed, and then also having more heavily armed response units nearby (and then the heaviest armed forces for special circumstances). I've seen little to indicate that having an armed force really combats violence in a country.. instead it just ends up matching the criminal elements.

    TBH I don't think the vast majority of women should be frontline police officers, unless they've shown themselves fully capable of defeating a man (or group) in unarmed combat. I'd say no different to a weak skinny guy either. We need to have police officers who are physically capable of meeting the demands of their positions. Having a diverse but effectual police force doesn't interest me, and just screams stupidity.

    I could understand if the drive was to place women in office positions, or similar types of roles... but as with the military, the demands tend to evolve into having women doing the same roles as the men, even when they're substantially less capable of doing so.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    My own opinion is there should be 2 categories something i would say 50/50 armed... i would also have two types Gardai beat/traffic and heavyweight armed... Criminals do not have much resprect for beat Gardai... This needs to stop and people who have firepower need to be dealt with in they only way they understand...



Advertisement