Russia - threadbanned users in OP

The former Eastern bloc states that joined Nato were eager to do so. They well remember the peace of the prison yard that was imposed on them.

Have look at the date on this article ,this was during the maiden protests in kiev

It's genuinely hard to tell with many people on these forums.

I'm really not sure what people think they're actually achieving, by trying to paint this conflict in such ridiculously over simplistic terms?

Like, do you really think anyone who is in serious negotiations with Putin to de-escalate this whole situation, will be approaching it in such a stupid manner? If they did, I'm sure there would zero chance of any deal being brokered.

I guess it's okay for faceless nobodies on the interweb, to live in their own little fantasy world. But it's still quite ridiculous to read some of it tbh.

So Afghans want Sharia Law Harry? They always had Sharia Law..long long before the arrival of the Taliban. And you didn't know that Harry? That was one thing about the Taliban that always puzzled Afghans... " Why are the Taliban preaching Islam to us? We have always been a Muslim Country" ( thats not strictly true either, as the Bamyan Statue's prove ,) The Russians lasted 10 years in Afghanistan, and when they left, there were big celebrations. The US lasted 20 years, and left by their own choice, after having as I said earlier spent Billions on the Country. Are they being missed? You bet they are. And when the US kicked out the Taliban, I remember the roads leading to Kandahar being littered with Taliban 4x4's, and for sure Afghans paid back many old scores against the Talibs, for the atrocities they had committed.

So the polls show that 3 out of 10 Afghans approve attacks on US forces, and half Afghans support armed opposition groups, and 15% support the Taliban. None of these polls show 100% support for the Taliban. But anyway, now that all these Taliban fans you think exist, have had their wish granted, we will see ( and are seeing already,) how it goes for ordinary Afghans.....so far not looking good. Extra judicial killings, women again suffering under severe restrictions, and if that was not enough, a major famine developing. And Harry, from personal experience ( I know, I know. With you, personal experience does not count) if you saw up close and personal what rule is like under Taliban Sharia law, you might have a different opinion too. A quick visit to the local sport field on a Friday after Prayers can be a mind altering experience, as justice Taliban style is administered.

I'm not saying that my personal experience is the final and definite be all and end all of knowledge on a particular subject Harry, but for sure Living in a Country does give one an advantage over some one who has never even visited it, and whose views are dependent on news articles and polls,,,even years old polls.

Your quote Harry re the US " The United States never understood Afghanistan. American planners thought they knew what the country needed, which was not quite the same as what its people wanted. American policy was guided by fantasies; chief among them was the idea that the Taliban could be eliminated and that an entire culture could be transformed in the process."

Yes Harry, again good ol US of A...they got it all wrong. All of it, did they really Harry? That was not my experience while there.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, on some internet forum. (or indeed even what we can prove)

What matters is what leaders like Putin think. And based on both his public statements and actions, he clearly sees Ukraine as a buffer zone against further NATO encroachment.

You are welcome to disagree with him on that. You can even completely dismiss his concerns as unfounded and irrational if you wish. But anyone dealing with him, hoping to broker a deal, simply does not have that same luxury.

Based on what I've read and listened to from many different people, I personally think his fears are justified. Whether his planned actions to counter it, are the correct ones, that remains to be seen. Nobody knows his precise plans.

Can you or I prove 99.99% of the stuff that went down during the cold war, with double agents and covert sophisticated spying operations?

No...? Hmmm

Oh, well I guess none of that stuff happened then, right? Must have all just been made up! lol

I personally think there's some truth in Putin's belief that NATO had plans for Ukraine. Am I saying I'm 110% certain on that one? No, of course not. But that's the opinion I hold.

If you want to believe that Ukraine is some super over simplistic dispute over territory, and that's your angle on the whole thing, knock yourself out... you're welcome to hold that opinion.

But that's all it is, an opinion at the end of the day. Anyone on here could be completely wrong on how they're viewing this thing.

Yes, I know people like to play the all seeing eye game. I don't play that game, I don't pretend to be flawless. 😉

That's a lot of SU25 & Frogfoots in Luninets for a holiday

There was a large flight of helicopter gunships arrived in the area too on Saturday

@Shao Kahn You're clearly just another one of these lazy debaters.

You see an opinion you don't like, so you shout "prove it"... despite the fact that even world renowned experts are struggling to give accurate predictions of what is going to happen here .

You came here and made up a claim which you made up ,that's not debating that's being stupid ,

World renowned experts didn't claim Major NATO Installations being planned for Ukraine.

Just you .

@Shao Kahn You're actually the perfect example of the type of poster I'm referring to around here.

You act like you know everything and are infallible.

No,

just no

You really have to have a well developed sense of irony and the ridiculous to post this.

You might not be as comfortable with Putin-ology + Russia-splaining and also insulting elected leaders of Western countries as "limp wristed" in comparison to the autocratic Great Men of Action like Putin or Xi if putting your name to those opinions!

As for negotiations and deal making, seems like Russia has just laid out a fairly big set of demands (or at least that is what we hear in public). Setting aside rights and wrongs, Russia is not the Soviet Union and they don't appear to have the power to dictate all these terms to the US, let alone to all the other NATO members and EU members into the bargain.

It does seem quite simple as a faceless nobody watching. Ukraine is not in NATO, no one is going to do anything directly militarily if Russia attacks it again (for obvious reasons), so seems to me that all that remains is for Western countries to try & persuade Putin that invading Ukraine (more than he has already) will have a (very) high cost in other ways + will not be worth it, and see what decision he makes.

We have international law to sort these opinions out. Such as the right of a sovereign nation that has recognized international borders to protect it's borders from incursion. The opinions on why things happen or the agendas of certain parties are just conjecture with no real value.

The age profile on Boards is older and likely therefore more politically aware. On both sides of the argument.