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McEntee launches Garda recruitment drive. Is this just lip service?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,336 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    @Sugar_Rush Give this article from October last year a quick sconce. Basically, 300 retiring per year, aiming for the end of 2024 figure of 15,000, which will require 600 new per year, which is actually only 300 new per year. Drop in the ocean. Pointless tbh.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40717725.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Need more prisons and harsher sentences.

    20 strikes and your out

    5 strikes and if not an Irish citizen you are deported



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    That article does of course highlight funding as being an issue.

    Going on those numbers it seems pretty dramatically improbable we're going to have sufficient street Garda presence any time soon.

    i.e. it seems north Dublin's feral scaldie subculture will continue to use the streets as their playground with impunity.

    Not to mention the unchecked shit circus on public and private transport.

    Residents of Inchicore, Crumlin etc will just have to accustom themselves to having their lawns destroyed by dirt bikes and communities ravaged by car theft and all that associated trash chest puffing.

    ...........

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    ........ but what surprises me coming out of this thread is, lack of awareness of some of the realities of dealing with this type of person (scaldies and their trash girlfriends).

    It's almost a cliche, "violence is the only thing they understand".

    Now I don't mean garda should start using the long batons at free will, but as I mentioned, "understanding the potential threat of violence = the greatest deterrent against the manifestation of violence".

    .......

    People are funny like that, especially trash sub demographics that have nothing worthwhile in their lives outside of the deluded fantasy that they're "bad boys" or "bad girls".

    It's only when they realize that you'd beat their ass that they settle down.

    I guess no one wants to cross the line into police brutality but last time on Talbot street I witnessed an armed garda being made shit of by a bunch of adolescent scrotes who were blatantly indulging in damage of public property (tearing bikes off bike racks), and he literally couldn't do a thing about it.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I guess no one wants to cross the line into police brutality but last time on Talbot street I witnessed an armed garda being made shit of by a bunch of adolescent scrotes who were blatantly indulging in damage of public property (tearing bikes off bike racks), and he literally couldn't do a thing about it.

    I'd say quite a lot of people would like to return to the time when violent teenagers, drug dealers etc were brought behind the copshop and given a sound beating, knowing that if they continued that behaviour, they would get beaten again.

    However, that time is gone. There's not going to be a return to that kind of response. Official or unofficially. Times have changed.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gardai cannot assault people. They will find themselves in court pretty quickly if they did. You have a strange idea of law enforcement and the law in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I may be off the mark on this one and i if so i am happy to be corrected. A few months ago i needed to call to the local station to have a form signed. While there i noticewd these two skinny girls that were ban Gardai... I was thinking what use would they be in a situation that become aggressive on a Saturday which i expect is part of policing... There was also a ecomplaint from the Gardai conference about Gardai being assaulted while on duty. Do we not need a tough cop approach for criminals, robbers and people being assaulted on the streets and in their own home. I think if people of slight build want to be Gardai they need to be armed for protection (safety in the workplace) I seen recently recently there is a drive to recruit more female Gardai and just wonder if anyone agrees with this comment...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,534 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Hard to see them even hitting the 15,000 figure tbh. Can't fill intakes as it is. There isn't a hope in hell of 800 being recruited this year.

    Some amount of resignations too.

    I wouldn't be surprised if manpower was closer to 14,000 than 15,000 by the time 2024 comes around.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll honestly say that having a mostly unarmed police force is a great thing, although I do think it needs to backed up by governments willing to support the police properly. I wouldn't want Ireland to go the way of France, Spain, etc having most police armed, and then also having more heavily armed response units nearby (and then the heaviest armed forces for special circumstances). I've seen little to indicate that having an armed force really combats violence in a country.. instead it just ends up matching the criminal elements.

    TBH I don't think the vast majority of women should be frontline police officers, unless they've shown themselves fully capable of defeating a man (or group) in unarmed combat. I'd say no different to a weak skinny guy either. We need to have police officers who are physically capable of meeting the demands of their positions. Having a diverse but effectual police force doesn't interest me, and just screams stupidity.

    I could understand if the drive was to place women in office positions, or similar types of roles... but as with the military, the demands tend to evolve into having women doing the same roles as the men, even when they're substantially less capable of doing so.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    My own opinion is there should be 2 categories something i would say 50/50 armed... i would also have two types Gardai beat/traffic and heavyweight armed... Criminals do not have much resprect for beat Gardai... This needs to stop and people who have firepower need to be dealt with in they only way they understand...



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Much more to being a guard then physical incidents. I'm sure those gardai (no ban gardai anymore) are quite as able as anyone else to do their job.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Conflicts escalate. Having an armed police force encourages those who are committed to breaking the law (not impulse driven) to compensate for the police being armed, and so, the police themselves ever need greater firepower.

    At the same time, Ireland is no longer an isolated nation with little in the way of immigration. Foreign ideas are here, as will come people who are used to the more hard-line environments of more violent countries, and we'll see the scope of violent crime adjust accordingly here too. So, TBH I do agree that we're going to need to have armed police here in Ireland at some stage.

    As for criminals and firepower... I don't there's any realistic answer. People are people, and those who want more, will do what they can to get what they want. They're not going to be deterred by our Gardai being armed.. so they'll need to be taken down by force. That's the case everywhere else in the world. I would say that we need to adjust to reality, but I know there's a lot of people out there who will favour the softer approach, ignoring the costs and collateral damage so that their more "humane" beliefs are satisfied.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are over a quarter of the force holding firearms cards.

    Most detectives carry firearms and there is also an armed support unit, highly trained, patrolling 24/7 to respond to armed incidents. Not to mention the emergency response unit and the special detective unit. There are enough firearms in AGS.

    The type of organised criminal gangs that we have in Ireland would not think twice about shooting armed gardai. Guns don't stop violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭FGR


    Not to mention the ever increasing bureacracy associated with policing causing many guards to be indoors doing paperwork - particularly at night time as during the day many supervisors and managers expect the guards to be out when clearly it should be something built into their rosters. Senior management don't understand that however as the burden of paper in their time was not even a fraction of what it is now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I be very surprised if there is any paper now as everything digital and reports done in real time and put on individual Gardai daily report...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    An incident that happened this week that resulted in a death had a response time of 90 mins for ASU,

    Having loads of resources to respond to something in D1 is nice if your in D1 but not so much outside of Dublin,

    Its incompetent management and poor planning, as well as political interference in policing such as McEntee dictating who should and should not be recruited biased on their ethnic make up for political reasons.

    Access to non lethal defensive tools (beanbag rounds or tazers ) in every 24 hour district would solve the problems. But training and equipment is considered too expensive when balanced against the effect on Gardai and provision of a less effective service to the public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,669 ✭✭✭✭Witcher




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I agree there is huge focus on traffic laws and most can be done by technology... speeding/tax cameras... just issue fine to reg owner. parking should done by lesser paid wardens so Gardai should have time for police work... I think the drink driving pretty well gone... closing time is not such a big deal...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    well if i haven't i expect you will tell mw what i don't know..



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Every guard in the country should carry a taster imo, there a great piece of equipment, the problem is that they are designated as firearms here, so can't go to uniform members. They really need to try and change this. Teaser is less lethal than a baton!

    And I don't know where your going with the political rubbish about who should and should not be recruited. They should be encouraging minorities to join. Can't see any issue with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭FGR


    Unfortunately inputting information on the new digital devices is only additional work to the current paperwork that exists. From taking statements for the most basic of reports to record keeping on several digital systems, to handwriting the interviews with suspects even though it's already recorded on DVD to then the same guard having to type up those statements/interviews/notes and lists of exhibits and records associated for the purposes of record keeping and for direction. If the DPP is involved there's an extra burden of additional bureaucracy.

    Ask any guard - many people out there think it's like on television or in the UK/France/Spain where the uniform officer is a 'response' officer and passes investigations onto detective teams and that all of the admin is done by civil servants. The truth is that in 90% of cases in Ireland it's the uniform guard that handles everything from beginning to end - hence why you don't see many guards out and about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭FGR


    IMO I think you're right about a taser being safer than a baton - but there needs to be more legislation to back the garda using it. At the minute a guard appears to be guilty until proven innocent; particularly in the court of mainstream and (unfortunately) social media.

    The criminal justice system survived being out of date for as long as it has as imo many in the system taped over the cracks to keep things going. What used to be a quiet word from a guard to someone's parents for their children misbehaving or arresting someone simply for their own safety until they've recovered from being too drunk is now a full investigation in each case with written authorisation and direction sought from management with, in many cases, prosecutions for same which have since ground the entire system to a halt - nevermind the lack of prison spaces which has been an issue since even before the boom.

    The whole system, from the top down; from the Department of Justice, the Judiciary, the Prison Service, Social Services and AGS needs to be reviewed and overhauled but like everything talk is cheap and sadly you won't see that kind of commitment.

    In 1997 Bertie Ahern promised a three strike system and recently Minister McEntee has considered bringing people under 25 into the juvenile diversion programme. Why didn't the first happen? Because it costs too much. Why is the second being considered? Because it's far cheaper to keep repeat offenders out of the courts system and allow them to continue being a menace to the public at large.

    Anyway../rant over.

    On topic I think that recruitment is great but they need to cover those who are retiring/resigning in addition to bolstering the numbers. Once we don't have a repeat of the crash where the numbers dropped from 14,500 to 12,400; and keep the trend going upwards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    I don't know if this is true or not as of course I'm not acquainted with the ins and outs of law enforcement.

    I would absolutely believe it however, if for no other reason that this paragraph immediately reminded me of that scene from Casino (1995, true story) where the police executed the gang member by mistake and were immediately regretful, exclusively cause the burden of paperwork they knew they'd be shouldered with,

    .......

    In terms of paper work management and all that bureaucratic burden, whenever I have a matter for attention of police or law enforcement, I make a point of writing a report myself and submitting it; it's typically going to be far better, more comprehensive and detailed than anything an overworked officer is gonna get down on paper themselves on the fly.

    I also have reason to believe that when it comes to judicial sentencing, a lot of the time it's the paper work the judge reviews that will sway their decision one way or the other.

    I mean what else have they got to on?

    They're not on the frontlines, they're hold up in Foxrock believing the best of everyone and refuse to be burdened with the knowledge that society does indeed have a strong contingent of irredeemable pieces of trash that will never change their outlook, unless confronted with adequate punishment.

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    So the system is dated and needs to be fixed is what you are saying... i expect all Gardai are computer literate now so i expect handwriting interviews very very rare... if there not up to typing speed bring in an office person for the interview should be straightforward... We should be doing things the same as Spain/France to free up Gardai to do what they signed up for...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    You don't need more expensive prisons that do nothing. You just need to pick up a deviant teenager, drive him up the Dublin mountains and let him walk home. I'm sure the experience will stick with him. You don't even need to hit the poor chap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,669 ✭✭✭✭Witcher




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,669 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    'So I expect handwriting interviews is very very rare'

    lol just stop, again, you have no idea.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The crazy stuff that people think about AGS and the whole system is unbelievable!



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    TBH most of the office work could be outsourced in the same manner that companies do it. Confidential information remains confidential whether you're a business or the Gardai (if anything private businesses specialising in this area would likely be more secure), and it would free up Gardai to do the duties they're supposed to be directed towards. Bringing in a business systems engineer to streamline the processes involved would be a good idea. I would imagine they've done it in the past, but at the same time, I do wonder if they haven't been bothered to do so, instead implementing half-arsed measures instead over time.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nope, just falsely imprison him 🙄

    How many gardai do you think want to get a charge and conviction?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    So you mean to tell me that the paper work conveying the details of a case is never at any point during said case, used to relay information therein to the officiating judge?

    ......

    UWotM8?

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    This is a forum... no.one can say stop.. so you know the secret but wont say... i do not believe interviews are taken in station by hand... name address onside of road be ok but only this...



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What do you think the people giving evidence in court is for? That's the evidence🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,857 ✭✭✭Allinall


    What the poster said.

    Can’t believe you don’t know this stuff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,669 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    What you believe and the actual facts of the matter are very different things.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,534 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    They are. Primarily because legislative change is required which is outside the control of An Garda Síochána. Legislative change is in the works, but will take time considering decades of criminal justice legislation is currently being reworked and codified.

    "You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so, but whatever you say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence".

    The clue is highlighted.

    All witness statements and interviews are taken down in writing. It's nothing to do with computer literacy and whatnot. You don't have to take the word of some randomer on the internet, there are plenty of submissions to the Commission on Future Policing in Ireland on the topic. You clearly have never given a statement to Gardaí, when was the last time you actually had an interaction with a Garda?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seriously? You have been told that interviews are taken by hand. That's it. Doesn't matter what you think in your head.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    ASU are uniform and they carry multiple Firearms , Its not a legal issue its a substandard management one , fixed with the stroke of a pen but they fear it would lay badly in the media. peoples safety and quality of service manipulated for the sake of politics

    A new recruitment drive for An Garda Síochána has launched today (thejournal.ie)

    Look at the name of the thread ,

    Remember when there was a huge push to recruit females into front line policing in the 2000s ? at the expense of qualified males, and then of course they failed to realize that many of these females would be out for long periods on maternity to come back on restricted hours and accommodated in office jobs letting burden fall on the lads. The ineffective members stayed in the figures but rarey if ever filled a car or walked a beat. I have no issue what so ever with encouraging any one to join as long as it makes sense and as long as they are present and work rather than just used for a media sound bite

    And before you attack me for criticizing females or some such Im simply pointing out the reality of front line policing that you dont seem aware of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    Sorry maestroamado but you are incorrect , pen and paper is still the standard and will be for quite some time , then typed up later either by the garda or in rare cases where there is a typist available, mostly specialist units



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,662 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake



    Using your examples, how would technology deal with the driver being full of a selection box drugs as per the situation below (and if you follow their twitter, drivers like this are a regular occurance on the roads)?

    Sure, ANPR wouldn've picked up the NCT/Tax infringements, but the more serious/dangerous to the public offences would've been missed out, or worse, if the driver casused injury/death to innocent persons whilst intoxicated at the wheel?





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,669 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Telling Bubblypop they don't know the reality of policing lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    Different perspectives on some of the same issue's , its not a hive mind you know



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1127/749601-garda-recruitment/


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-needs-to-be-addressed-gra-demand-more-black-and-asian-gardai-in-the-force-35996966.html

    Various recruitment drives since 2015, all encouraging minorities and different nationalities to apply. calls from the Garda representative association itself, that represents Garda rank only.

    Also encouraging more women to apply much more recently then the early 2000s.

    So @mikethecop what's the issue with encouraging other nationalities to join up?

    Also, it is a legal problem with a taser, they are deemed to be firearms under the law. Change the law, and give everyone tasers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Well i actually was speaking to a Gardai the other day and he told me the law was changed recently to allow Gardai to be able to enforce law for bikes/scramblers on Coillte property... I think if Gardai make a case for law changes it happens... if it does not there is a serious problem in the Justice system...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    Doesn't address any of the points i raised though does it ? I explained the issues with hiring large numbers of females for political reasons and why it backfired on front line members . i dont know why you trying to paint me as having a issue with minorities ? i covered that too

    like i said ASU uniform carry fire arms and tazers . its an attitude change thats needed not a legal one. Again as i said not every one needs one , access to appropriate equipment is whats needed



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    So you are baisically saying the only reason the car on the road is the APNR not working...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    increased numbers yes , to promote inclusivity and diversity same as most countries in the world

    by the way do you recall the push pull physical test that had to be shelved and the reason why ?


    One-third of gardai will be women by next year - Independent.ie



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