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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭Shuffl_in


    Surprised by how little pushback the departments are getting. We're being brought back in with zero flexibility and I can only think of one person out of 20+ who is happy with it.

    Nobody expects the ever-dormant Fórsa to wake up and speak out. It's the most important issue for their members in a very long time but they're pretty ineffective.

    Plenty of unhappy workers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Forsa is in talks with DPER atm with regards to the policy . Individual departments won't issue their guidelines on WFH until DPER release theirs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    We can be sure DPER won’t offer anything remotely (no pun intended) similar to most of the private sector who will clearly opt for remote working to reduce office costs and staff renting costs (increasing daily).

    Senior management won’t want change.

    If anyone has experience leaving the public for the private sector please get in contact. Top graduates will start moving there soon on graduation once they see how slow and backwards the Civil Service is. Imagine working a few months from a beach in Spain. Nothing the CS could do could compare to that anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭leanbh


    The EU directive on work life balance 2019/1158 (which includes right to request remote working if you have kids under 8/ disabled relative) does have to be transposed in some form by August this year (because the EU has told us to do this). At that point private sector employees can rely on whatever legislation is put in place. But this isn't some huge gift from Varadkar to employees.

    This is a legally binding obligation under EU rules (and i bet that directive will be interpreted as narrowly as legally possible)

    However, Civil servants can rely on the directive since 2019 and don't have to wait for any legislation. This is because of the principle of "direct effect".

    Directives once published have to be immediately applied by public bodies.

    But no-one appears to be aware of this least of all the unions??!

    Makes you wonder where the unions stand on the issue of remote working !



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    Unions are all previous colleagues/friends with senior management and HR APs and above. They won’t bite the hand that feeds them anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Ollie321


    Have there been any discussions regarding what blended working is actually going to mean regarding flexi and the likes of opting to WFH on a day you are due in office and attending office on a different day etc. While some Depts have taken a Dept wide approach to date not all have, if local management impose less flexible conditions staff will opt to seek a move



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    this isnt it.


    i think unions, ruled over at the top by idealogues as far as can be discerned, have long-reaching concerns over what "work from anywhere" does for security of roles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭LegallyAbroad


    What? This is not how direct effect works at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    In my department even though we’re going in 2 days WFH 3 days at the moment, Flexi is completely disbanded. Obligatory 2 hour lunch means I have to stay in later - missing the 6pm train :(

    All in all, my department has used WFH to take more from lower down staff. My contract states Im on flexi yet they took that from me and have not even said when they will bring it back. Don’t get me wrong, I was happy to put in extra hours as I had no commute. However, currently its commute without flexi. Worst of both worlds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭LegallyAbroad




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  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    Yes. We were told by management to clock in in the morning and out in the evening when we leave working. The system takes out the 2 hours on the clocking system automatically. However, I usually work till 1.30 anyway as senior management can schedule a meeting anytime even 12.30.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    It only takes 2 hours if you don't clock in and out for lunch (as it's the default), so clock in and out for lunch instead and just take an hour or whatever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    Had a short discussion with our Forsa rep on Friday. It seems the main sticking point between the union and dper is over flexi, and how it would work in a blended arrangement. They also said when I enquired about full remote working that it wasnt being discussed at all, just the blended working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    Well, that’s shite. Even before the pandemic I was losing flexi hours at the end of the month anyway. So I’d be happy to remove flexi for the days WFH. Clock in and out for lunch/when entering and leaving when Im in the office then so I can get the train. Simples.



  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭LegallyAbroad


    Why don't you just clock in and out for the time you actually take for lunch?



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    I will now, thx. Especially as we’re returning to the office, time I take back my rights.

    i was not clocking as my manager told me not to clock lunches while WFH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,448 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Everyone working 9-5 well that will help with the traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    Dreading it! Back to traffic and the old grind as the boomers want. They won’t be here to deal with the climate change impact, it will be for the younger generation to handle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,448 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I thought it was the younger staff who want to go back lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 martysparty


    Have little to no faith in whatever wfh policy they are developing. Any wfh policy that had to be put on hold in November due to omicron won't be worth much. What I mean by that is if the people developing the policy felt they couldn't continue work on the policy remotely they probably have an office first mentality.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme


    I'll take a blended approach. Ideally two wfh three in the office. Forsa being incompetent won't make it easy though. Will be very interesting to see what they do with flexi too. Not at all impressed about going back to the office when flexi isn't being offered and I still have to clock in. It's an insult really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    Lol

    what young person wants to go back to office politics, commuting and paying half their salary or more on rent. Even people in Dublin don’t want the hour commute. Young people I have spoken to want Anchor days. Studies show its most affective in building relationships as there’s a get-up-and-go mentality to meeting new people. After a week in the office, groups will have formed and people get stuck in the same weekly rut.

    young people i know have already met up outside of the office setting. We have a buddy system in my department and we all met already for drinks.

    whoever told you its young people wanting to get back is clearly pitting young and older people against each other. My cousin was out on the streets protesting with Greta Thunberg over Climate Change she’s devastated to see the return of traffic (which btw is way more than our poor farmers produce who are having their livelihoods threatened and bad for our economy - we could be the breadbasket of Europe we have some much good cattle and not droughts).

    maybe there is one or two old fashioned young people wanting office gossip but I really haven’t met them in my circle anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    The aim of the directive is probably to take the pressure off child care and health care only. Reducing costs for Governments. For example it may be the case that I provide palliative care at home instead of the government hiring an expensive home nurse or re-opening regional hospital palliative care units (many closed last year due to costs).

    Other workers are cash cows providing revenue in their commute and at coffee shops etc.

    If you’re hoping all civil servants will get WFH it is best look to the private sector.



  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭leanbh


    The EU directive on work life balance is worth pursuing for those civil servants who want wfh to look after children/ disabled dependants/ elderly relatives.

    and it most definitely is directly effective for civil/public servants . See  Foster v British Gas plc 


    In practice, I think this whole wfh is going to be the future. I honestly don't know why the unions aren't pushing it.

    Like Avenger2020, I think in the short term, the private sector is much more receptive to it if you want it on a fulltime basis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭billyhead


    From what I hear the DPER policy when it's published will be 3 days in and 2 at home. Obviously we would all like more days at home but it's better than nothing I suppose. Our section have been more productive working from home. How is dragging us into an office any benefit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Most private sector jobs will be at best 3 in and 2 at home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭blue_blue


    I'm actually LOL'ing at all the talk re: Public vs. Private.

    Private will be the one sector that will be DEMADING their workers return for the max 5 days a week. Mark my words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,448 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That's exactly what you are doing setting one group against the other.

    There are people of all ages with similar wishes with regard to all these issues. Truely bizarre you think it's an age thing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    A range of private sector companies across a variety of fields have already implemented a WFH full-time policy. Dropbox, Novartis, Shopify, spotify, Facebook/Meta, Zillow to name a few.

    in fact the new Financial services start-up (often said to be the future of FS) Square quickly agreed a WFH full time policy after Twitter said it was WFH full time.

    Google is doing a hybrid model. Microsoft also hybrid but you can apply for full time WFH through your manager.

    frankly, if any private sector is reading this I would WFH for less money than I am on now. Rent and bills and costs in Dublin take over half my salary.



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