Russia - threadbanned users in OP

It must be soul-destroying to have to write shite on an Irish forum for a living. It is not exactly the dream job growing up

Sanctions don't work. The last one's certainly didn't, and were deeply unpopular with many nations.

Even if Russia invades, diplomacy is still the best method. Although it would be much better to find a diplomatic solution before an invasion obviously.

I don't personally think an invasion is likely however.

There is a strong argument to be made, that the last sanctions actually further escalated this conflict. And make a bigger more devastating conflict more likely too. Europe doesn't have the stomach for more sanctions, from my reading of things anyway.

Sanctions can have a significant effect. Russia has a GDP below that of Italy, a shaky currency and is heavily dependent on natural resource exports to Europe - full-on sanctions would be economically very painful for them. It's likely they would also be cut off from the international banking system.

Sanctions will only be placed if Russia invades, and they are a strong deterrent in this case. Russia would also become a global pariah (not that they are far off that at the moment) which would have all sorts of impact on trade, investment, etc.

I don't think Putin will invade, he's escalating this for concessions and domestic reasons (like Jong Un does regularly), however if nations bend and give in they are just appeasing, hence the hard stance. He's testing the resolve of the Biden admin, the cohesiveness of NATO, etc.

My original question was aimed at posters who are indirectly pro-Putin (they hate the US/West/etc), how will they respond IF Russia theoretically invaded, would they continue to shift blame or?

I am seeing quite a few excuses floating around about the Russian build-up of forces. Let's be clear here, this is the largest military build up since World War 2, and new Russian forces are still arriving and taking up strategic positions all around Ukraine. This not a normal military maneuver. To put it in perspective, if this was happening between two peaceful countries it would be provocative in the extreme, if e.g. the UK started to surround Ireland with warships, invasion forces, a massive build up of it's military on the Northern Ireland border - I don't need to say anything, there would be a massive international outcry, it's such a crazy scenario it's difficult to imagine. Yet this is happening right outside Ukraine's borders, hence the international concern and response. It's highly aggressive and purposeful (even if Putin has no intention of following through) and world leaders are right to be taking it very seriously.

It's very much on the table, I work in that industry. The proposed sanctions are pretty hardcore to say the least, nothing like the targeted sanctions of 2014. Yes, there'd be some pain for Europe for sure, but it would be far more painful for Russia economically. As I've mentioned before, there are many reasons for Putin to bluff this. However there is very little reason for Moscow to actually go in, it would be economic suicide for the country. For what gain? A potential quagmire, cut off from the banking system, crippling international sanctions with their biggest trading partners, RUB going berserk, etc - even in the best scenario they come out the other side economically devastated.

Going into spring, if such a scenario actually occurred, countries could take a big hit and stop importing Russian gas/oil and that alone would pretty much shut the country down, they wouldn't be able to shift those exports quick enough to Asia.

My real question is: what does the world do if Putin keeps those forces continually surrounding Ukraine, prepped to go, creating a continual pressure cooker. I suspect he'll do that in some form.

@Pa ElGrande , fighting brown people in the desert is fine, fighting someone who can land actual punches.

Remind us who have Russia fought

Over last few years nato has increased it's spending and capability ,

Even ukraine has over 100 billion in the last few years on defense ..

Remember Ukraine starts the process to Join the EU in 2 years time , little or no discussion on Nato , despite whats Been claimed on here by pro putin anti nato posters ,

Nato isn't the issue here it's democracy and economic success unlike in Russia where there is no democracy and they only people who succeed are gangsters such as putin

Ukraine used be called the bread basket of Europe, but now it is the bread basket of a host of 3rd world countries.

Libya, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, Malaysia, Bangladesh and another dozen are major importers. At levels where Ukrainian grains are vital to feeding the population.

The most productive land is in the South East.

All America/The West/NATO can really do is let Putin know in detail the price he will pay if he pulls the trigger. If he maintains the current buildup the attention of the West will drift away as the days go by and Putin will have to decide if he wants to follow through in some form as I don't see any point in keeping those troops there over the long haul...

Definitely not ,but it would have saved putin going through all this effort to control Ukraine

I could almost regurgitate what you wrote there verbatim, but replace Russian forces with NATO missile installations and bases, and we could play this game forever and a day!

For every concern that the world has about Ukraine and Russian build up of forces, Russia has those same concerns and more about NATO encroachment.

"Not one inch eastward" The west needs to start living up to it's words, and taking Russia serious. Otherwise we will all be living in a de-stabilized world for many decades to come. Not just the failed state of Ukraine.

The US foreign policy blunders and empty pledges, have put European security in this position. Not the Russian counter measures.

If you think the build up of traditional military apparatus and personnel on their western border is concerning, just wait until Putin decides to move the really scary weapons onto that border and leave them there permanently - which he very likely could if there is no compromise to be found with the west. He could also put nukes in Belarus very soon as well. All as a reciprocation to mirror NATO's clear intentions to creep eastward.

People are acting as if Russia are cornered here. It's the complete opposite, Europe and the west are facing into a new cold war that could last many decades. If European leaders are smart, they will take America out of the leadership position on this and strike a deal with Russia. Otherwise all our lives will be framed by fear, paranoia and militarization for the foreseeable future. Something nobody wants after the sh!tshow that has been covid.

How will the pro West lackeys spin it if he doesn't invade? He backed down in the face of the mighty West standing for democracy and human rights, those benevolent Western powers 🤣