Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Gatling · 14-02-2022 7:38am

Must have been a shift change

Not one inch eastward" The west needs to start living up to it's words, and taking Russia serious. Otherwise we will all be living in a de-stabilized world for many decades to come. Not just the failed state of Ukraine.

Lol your getting more funny as you go along ...

Tell us about Russia's scary weapons and what computer game did you see them in

Gatling · 14-02-2022 7:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627571#Comment_118627571

Sure we a few privates on this thread alone

Gatling · 14-02-2022 7:41am

@BurgerFace America is on the wane. And have been for the guts of 30 to 40 years.

What about Russia big bad Soviets lost the cold war and still sliding down the global power ratings ,

Replaced by India and Brazil .....

14-02-2022 7:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627566#Comment_118627566

Do you think, as a principle, that large countries should plant 170,000+ troops etc. on the border of smaller countries as a negotiation tactic to get what they want?

Forget about the US etc.

Do you think this is an acceptable principle?

MFPM · 14-02-2022 8:05am

Ukranian Ambassador to UK suggesting they could shelve their NATO membership ambitions for 'peace'. It would be an interesting move and quite the concession notwithstanding they won't be joining anytime soon. Can't see the US hawks backing this though I might be wrong.

14-02-2022 8:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627635#Comment_118627635

Ukraine should do this regardless.

It takes the casus belli out of the hands of the Russians.

listermint · 14-02-2022 8:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627612#Comment_118627612

They actually take the weekend off. Don't get paid in the weekend it's a minimum wage gig Mon to Friday

Gatling · 14-02-2022 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627674#Comment_118627674

It actually seems that way

Gatling · 14-02-2022 9:04am

shillyshilly · 14-02-2022 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627566#Comment_118627566

jaysus, any other gaslight examples you want to throw in....

shillyshilly · 14-02-2022 9:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625664#Comment_118625664

great stuff

@MFPM @Ahherelads2022 @BurgerFace FYI

@Shao Kahn great point, but your arguments have still been very one sided, with you doing what you say in the above post

Shao Kahn · 14-02-2022 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627627#Comment_118627627

But you can't just forget about the US or the west etc.

That's the whole damn point of this crazy situation. If it was possible to simply isolate this as some small regional dispute, then it would be nowhere near the issue that it obviously is.

People trying to take the US out of this equation, are either naive in the extreme. Or just being deliberately obtuse about the whole thing.

But it doesn't matter if people want to lie or stick their head in the sand about this, because it's not going away any time soon without addressing the core fundamental issues at play. Ignore these issues, or dismiss Putin etc, and we'll be mired in this mess for decades. It's not a smart strategy.

shillyshilly · 14-02-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627749#Comment_118627749

That just nullifies any Ukrainian argument of wanting sovereign boarders, wanting to join NATO, wanting to join EU as just US puppeteering though. Which is a bit of a cop out.

Pa ElGrande · 14-02-2022 9:53am

Lets talk about Germany. It's the 4th largest economy in the world and since the departure of Britain it de-facto controls the EU (he who pays the piper calls the tune). The have been engaged in an energy transition (Energiewende) program for the past 2 decades and to that end they have been closing their nuclear power stations with only 3 remaining and due to be closed this year. The nuclear plants in France built in the 1970s are ageing and becoming more expensive to maintain. Germany is a big exporter of vehicles, machinery, chemicals and other manufactured goods. It's dominant economic policy is mercantilism. To that end Germany is dependent on Russian gas and it would prefer to trade with Russia. Putin also speaks German having spend time there in his KGB back-office days and the Russians have spent a lit of time building the relationship with Germany. The former social democrat chancellor of Germany Gerhard Schröder will sit on the board of Gazprom and already sits on Rosneft. Germany has also blocked Estonia exporting arms to Ukraine. At this time the second gas pipeline Nord Stream 2 is ready to begin operation. Germany does not have any LNG terminals so the logistics of supplying American gas aside, they are dependent on Russia for their gas supplies.

If Russia invades Ukraine, there will be no Nord Stream 2, Biden says

Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

What else is motivating Washington? Money from lobbyists.

Army of Ukraine lobbyists behind unprecedented Washington blitz

The Ukraine lobby amplifies the voices of those pushing for more aggressive U.S. responses to the current crisis, but Ukrainian interests are far from the only players in this behind-the-scenes lobbying battle. The U.S. defense sector, for example, spent more than $117 million on lobbying in 2021. With U.S. weapons manufacturers making billions in arms sales to Ukraine, their CEOs see the turmoil there as a good business opportunity. And, of course, Russian interests are spending exorbitantly on influence operations and lobbying in the U.S. — approximately $182 million since 2016, according to OpenSecrets.

Nord Stream 2 pipeline proves to be a sticking point in Biden and new German chancellor's show of unity

But Scholz himself refused to even name the project during the news conference, and declined to commit to ending the pipeline if an invasion moves ahead -- a stance causing problems for his foreign minister during a visit to Ukraine. In the interview with CNN, Scholz repeated his vow to remain aligned with the US, though again wouldn't clarify his intentions for the Nord Stream project.

Nord Stream 2: Why Russia’s pipeline to Europe divides the West

“The more the US talks about sanctioning or criticises the project, the more it becomes popular in German society,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia and eastern Europe expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations.

“Germans in the majority support the project, it is only parts of the elite and media who are against the pipeline.”

What are the alternatives to Russian gas?

The gas pipeline to Europe via Syria and Turkey got scuppered years ago.
The Levantine gas field project pipeline to Europe is not yet in place.

How Biden is trying to clean up his comments about Russia and Ukraine

On Wednesday, Biden had predicted Russia would invade Ukraine, but suggested there was a split among NATO members about how to respond if Moscow took action that stopped short of sending its troops across the border — something Biden referred to as a "minor incursion." He said:

"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do."

Once Nord Stream 2 is open, Germany is committed and the Americans lose power and influence in Europe, except for the Britain and Ireland. This is why they have pulled out of Ukraine and given Putin an open invitation to invade. If they were prepared to fight there would be substantial military activity exercises across western Europe, there is not. Ukraine is just a side show, the real issue is the relationship between Germany (and by extension the EU), Russia and the USA. An invasion of Ukraine by Russia is in the American administrations immediate interests (Domestic politics + lobbyists), while Russia's long terms interests are the neutralisation of Ukraine. German interests are what counts.

14-02-2022 10:13am

For goodness sake, if you think of Irish history, there is nothing more natural than for Irish people to be suspicious of motives whenever the UK (and to a lesser extent) US start waving their militarism around (I'll get to Russian militarism, don't worry :p ). Some elements in the UK, in particular, liked to speak about 'The Irish Problem' as though they had no role in creating it and were pure actors, sorting out those backward Irish. We have centuries of experience of militarists, bullies, and deceivers, and in our experience they wear British uniforms, not Russian. They work for London, not Moscow. They are NATO members.

The UK and US in this instance are leading the fear re: Ukraine. Nothing more natural then, but for some Irish people to question their true motives. As my grandfather used to say: "The sun never set on the British Empire, because you can't trust the fookers in the dark."

The natural temptation for some is to turn to powers that undermine US/UK hegemony.. such as Russia. To my mind this is mere entry level resistance to militarists and bullies. It's not that the Russian military are 'no angels', it's that they are lying, bullying, untrustworthy actors too. And in many respects when it comes to international law and the laws governing conflict, Russia is, by almost every measure, worse.

Point being, I wouldn't let rightful condemnation of macho US/UK self-appointed global police-ism drive you into the arms of the Russians or any other militaristic power. The problem isn't Russia, or the U.S. or the U.K. in particular the problem is militarism. Propagandists (and all sides are pumping it out) want you to get caught up in the breathless politics of the moment, while they plan years ahead. They want you to respond to feelings of outrage, while they remain rational at all times. They want to turn you into a fooking eejit, in other words. Don't do it.

timmyntc · 14-02-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617198#Comment_118617198

They annexed Ukraine at the request of presumably a majority of Crimeans. While the referendum they held is of questionable authenticity, 90% voted to join Russia. Not at all comparable to an invasion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617644#Comment_118617644

Some of us have better things to do than spend all our weekends on boards...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617796#Comment_118617796

Yawn, frozen ground, 2 more weeks.. starting to sound like those Qanon loopers - "trust the plan", "just 2 more weeks"

How many periods of "2 more weeks" have we been from russian invasion now? 3 or 4 at this stage, maybe more.

MFPM · 14-02-2022 10:33am

I see the granny with the AK47 is another photo op set up by the neo-Nazi Azof Batallion, the Westen media platforming these far right stunts in the last few days...

Pussyhands · 14-02-2022 10:48am

Another day, another fearmongering headline in the media.

"X does Y as invasion fears mount" for the last week.

I suppose they need their clicks after covid has passed!

Dohnjoe · 14-02-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627534#Comment_118627534

Parking the entire military on the doorstep of a neighbour is a deliberate and very serious move designed to threaten that neighbour. It's like pointed a loaded gun at someone's head. So no, a country can't just mass it's military wherever they want without legitimate international concern/consequences.

Gatling · 14-02-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627926#Comment_118627926

Not true at all ,the election was held under threat of military violence at the hands of the Russians ,

90% didn't vote for it , 110 % of the population of Crimea voted but yet Ukrainian ,tars and other minorities were blocked from voting..

But Russian forces who were bused in their thousands also voted .

Soooo.

Dohnjoe · 14-02-2022 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627600#Comment_118627600

Ukraine has been the target of Russian hybrid warfare and aggression for 8 years now after it expelled Moscow's man. Now Russia is threatening to invade. It's completely unsurprising that Ukraine would like to join NATO, don't you think?

Putin has made no genuine attempt to extend an olive branch. If he wants to appease nationalists and hardliners and create a new Cold War, okay, but no need to shift the blame elsewhere. No one else wants this but the country deliberately massing it's forces outside another threatening to invade.

Dohnjoe · 14-02-2022 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627926#Comment_118627926

If China shifted the bulk of it's military to surround Taiwan, but didn't pull the trigger, do you think that would impact Taiwan? Would it increase international tensions? Absolutely is the answer to both.

People need to stop pretending this build up is "nothing". It's very damaging in of itself, and Putin/world is well aware of this.

Shao Kahn · 14-02-2022 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627781#Comment_118627781

Their attempts to join NATO were a red rag to a bull, and they knew it too. Ukraine understands the politics of the region as well as anyone else. If they were concerned about maintaining their sovereignty and fledgling democracy, they should have acted in a more intelligent manner.

People can cry and whine all they wish about "it's their right to join if they wish... bla bla bla". Making these sorts of statements only shows your lack of understanding of the regional politics. And how much you have been bought and sold by western propaganda.

They'll get their sovereignty and autonomy back, once they start behaving like a trustworthy neighbor again. Russia doesn't give a monkey's how you or I over in the west view this dynamic. They only care about it from their own regional perspective. If the west chooses to view it in a completely different context, then tough sh!t basically... Putin will just shrug his shoulders and plow on anyway. He doesn't need you to understand or agree with his motives.

Gatling · 14-02-2022 11:10am

😂

Elmer Blooker · 14-02-2022 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627953#Comment_118627953

Even worse to see the once great Orla Guerin reduced to this sort of tacky tabloid ‘journalism’.

Gatling · 14-02-2022 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628089#Comment_118628089

They just want to see that Russia is putting it up to American ,that's all the majority of pro Russians posters are here for ,they have repeatedly proven a distinct lack of knowledge on the situation or the on going situation in Ukraine over the last 8 + years ,

Recently registered with low post counts says it all .

It's all America's fault ,it's all Bidens fault..

Question what did Biden do ?

Pretty much nothing

Shao Kahn · 14-02-2022 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628089#Comment_118628089

Of course it not "nothing". lol

But then NATO's march eastward is not "nothing" either.

Russia is attempting exact it's control over the region, just like US led NATO has been for 3 decades.

Choose your poison. What right does the USA have to control a region that's nowhere near their own territory? Especially when they agreed they would do the complete opposite.

Dohnjoe · 14-02-2022 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628146#Comment_118628146

These people personify countries in order to hold a grudge against them.

They've decided that X country is "bad" based on a cherry-picked history of that country stretching back decades, which is absurd of course, especially considering countries are governed by different administrations. They arrive in every international thread to attack whatever country (or basket of countries) they loathe and indirectly defend opposing countries. It's like the Youtube comments sections of old.

tinytobe · 14-02-2022 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628110#Comment_118628110

I think the Ukraine should have made an application to join NATO as a result when Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. You get Crimea, we go and join NATO, one step further and you Mr. Putin will have the whole of NATO against you. Now that's too late for that, - sadly.

The Ukraine also needs to understand that it's impossible to negotiate with Vladimir Putin. It's like in WW2 and Chamberlain negotiating assurances from Adolf Hitler. Jews couldn't negotiate with the Gestapo as well. One simply can't get assurances from criminals. And violating another countries territory and sovereignty is simply criminal and not acceptable.

The problem with wars is that they tend to take on their own dynamics. They also take longer as most people would think when the war starts.

At this point NATO should focus more on the Baltics also on Poland as they might be next.

14-02-2022 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628170#Comment_118628170

Difference is that countries applying for NATO membership does it voluntarily vs Russia invades you if you dont comply.

You choose.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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