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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,596 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    You see he can't go for the "shiney new thing" and more as farrell very much gives youth a chance...

    So now we're onto the "gilded" player who's good at one thing and not even URC level at all the rest



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    What was the nature of Kelleher's injury?

    Someone mentioned it above but Sheehen did really well when he came on, I would like to see him start against Italy irrespective.

    How many other changes will we see? Henderson and Henshaw will probably start. Carbery will surely get another go even if Sexton is fit.

    I'd be tempted to give Bealham and Lowry both the jersey as we need to develop depth at TH and 15, but that may be more a job for the summer in NZ.

    People will no doubt like to see it, but I'm not expecting 7 or 8 changes or anything like that. In fact I wouldn't be that surprised if Henderson and Henshaw are the only changes. It may be the bench that is tinkered with with the likes of Healy, O'Mahony and Murray replaces for this game by less experienced players.



  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    Regarding the ref gardiner, talk about a homer, no offside reffed, French hands at rucks playing ball on ground, forward pass for first try, irelands penalty advantage that he said was used after 2 phases and hindered o mahony tackling baille for last French try, I mean is his performance accessed and can ireland complain to world rugby etc if they aren't happy, I know it's a tough game to ref but he certainly seemed to favour France a lot



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I wasn't too disappointed when Kelleher went off as it meant Sheehan got some real good experience that will bode well for WC23.

    I wish we'd had the same opportunity with Balacoune. Conway will be 32 at the next WC and I don't think he'll be a starter.

    Similarly, Casey should be on the bench ahead of Murray. Murray will be 34 at the next WC and it's not like Murray is offering so much more than Casey.

    I was just thinking there that a lot of our main team right now will be in their 30s come the next WC.

    Furlong, Beirne, Henderson, vd Flier, Conan, JGB, Sexton, Murray, Aki, Lowe, Conway.

    The age profile of the french is unbeliavable. Ntamack, Jaminet, Jalibert, Aldritt, Bamba, Woki and Villiere all at most 26.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I thought Henderson and Henshaw could have been released to clubs for some much needed game time



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  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    that wasn't the point. the point was France have thought and looked outside the box. Can we really say Ireland have?

    its hard to tell if the players being released from camp is a good or bad thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Ahern is heavier than Ryan according to profiles.

    He;s the same weight as Flament , Again we're dealing in myths.

    the point is can we stop complaining about percieved size, pace , athleticism deficinies when long term solutions can't get game time.

    it looks as if we're going back to the idea that people can't break into the side. What makes Doris undroppable after a relatively poor performance? ditto Conan. its farcical that they are percieved miles ahead of anybody else. both are works in progress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Of course he's heavier he's 6 foot f*cking 9. It's easy to be heavy when you're that tall

    There's more to it than weight. Ryan is only 6'7, but way more filled out and capable of dealing with the physicality of international rugby. Devin Toner was 120+kgs, but who was more physically dominant, him or Henderson?

    If you think this guy, is going to solve our "size" issues, you are insane



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    he has a bit of filling out to do. Baird is the same. yet you'll have people waxing lyrical about the "monster" Flament, who is nearly an idenikit player to him.

    Ryan is just as lacking bulk as him, hence our power issues. in fact Ryan's lack of bulk has been detrtimental to him, as we saw with the lions.

    he's not the answer as he can't get selected for Munster. And its clear Irish rugby is prioritising athleticism, smaller bulk over larger body sizes.

    The point is we have and do produce large men. but for the most part they aren't deemed good enough.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    All the players released need game time. Some haven't played in over a month. I'm sure they are delighted to get out of camp and a chance to play some meaningful rugby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    oh yeah for sure, but in terms of selection for Italy. most of the players released have played within the last month



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    What's with your obsession with Flament? I've never heard anyone call him a monster. I'm sure he's a very decent player, but it wasn't because of him that we lost.

    Flament is a LH lock. We produce loads of lean, athletic, skillfull locks. It's the Willemses and Taofifenuas that we lack



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Just heard this morning on Off the ball.

    definitely don't produce the Willemses. but i'd argue that a willemses wouldnt be allowed develop. Hayes and Buckley and Casey spring to mind (before you nitpick the two formers were both originally second rows)

    whos that belvo lad in school. whats the bets he comes out into an academy and sheds that bulk.

    if Willemses came into the Irish system he wouldn't weigh 21 stone.

    Quinn Roux was also once a 21 stone TH lock



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Just heard this morning on Off the ball.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Well then I rest my case



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    it was Quinlan who said it. anyway its part of the percieved size thing. Antonio took a huge chunk of that for France. Look at Wokis actual weight and height.

    Farrell himself got annoyed about the size thing last week in a presser.

    Personally i don't buy into as much. but we can't complain when its clearly a strategy to desize guys like Roux. And in the end we nearly won because of it. but we've stung alot now in clutch games. rugby is a game for all sizes and sometimes we need the bulk. i suppose its just a shame that all our big men of the past have been considered differently and possible liabilities at the top level. not sure is it a bias or actual lack of ability.

    either people want Baird or the like a few kilos lighter or you want him heavier with a little decreased athleticism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,069 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Thanks for that I'll try doing it manually. You get to my time of life and I just don't want to read the views of attention seekers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,423 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Gotta say Carbery is a top class 10. Only issue is he is injury prone but I'm confident Ireland don't have a problem at 10 when he's on the field. I can't say that about anybody else bar Sexton obviously.

    If we have Sexton and Carbery for the World Cup in a couple of years time I like our chances of a good run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    right.. having a basic reasonable point is attention seeking?

    whatever



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Roxxers


    casey is way too much of a hot head and needs to cop on , his tantrums could lose mtaches



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  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Quinn Roux should have been kept in Ireland. He was the best 4 after Henderson



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Id prefer Marmion or Doak instead of him. Casey would be 3rd choice at best in both Connacht and ulster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    I think in the medium term Henderson must start anytime he is fully fit. Our pack is so much better with him in it. I think who he replaces is a horses for courses decision, clearly Ryan and Conan most vulnerable. I think we can all agree at this stage that Beirne is undroppable. Beirne at 6 and Doris at 8 is of course a live option.

    I was at the game down behind the goal in which Ireland attacked in the second half. It is only when I watched game back that I really got a sense of how much France targeted the breakdown. We made a number of mistakes which led to French scores, mistakes that this Ireland team weren’t making in previous games.

    It would be nice to see some changes against Italy. I think two out of Baloucoune, Lowry and Hume should start, with other on bench. I think all three may be too disruptive. Henshaw at 12 and Hume at 13 would be good. In the pack, Baird and Hendo perhaps. Dan could get start at hooker. Beirne should be kept back for England.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    For me Henderson, Ryan and Beirne all have to play. It's between Conan and Doris for 8. Personally I'd go Doris, I think he can be one of the best back rows in the world.

    Porter Kelleher Furlong

    Henderson Ryan

    Beirne Van Der Flier

    Doris

    Bench- Sheehan, Healy, Bealham, Conan, O'Mahony



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The 6ft 9in lad that can't get time in Munster, is not the answer. When he is a starting regular , maybe he will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    We don't produce big specimens! Look at the big locks that have come through.

    Danny Qualter.... listed at 6ft 6in and just 19 stone. Couldn't make it at Connacht.

    Peter Claffey.... 6ft 6in and 19 stone. Retired from injury. Didn't make an appearance for Connacht.

    Ian Nagle.. 6ft 6in, 18 stone 10 lbs. Decent player, not international standard.

    Darren O'Shea... 6ft 9in.. 19 stone, laboring away in D2 in France.

    Cian Romaine... 6ft 5in and 19stone, released from Connacht.

    These are off the top of my head. Even this year's 20's do not have big physical locks. Jack Dunne is a large man but, is leaving Leinster and is obviously deemed not good enough. Our best locks are smaller but more athletic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    I think some players would benefit going to southern hemisphere countries. Jager and thornbery benefited even bull hayes



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭jspuds


    I would love to see Gavin Coombs getting a run at second row for Ireland, think he could add a lot of power to the pack especially against the bigger sides



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Very helpful, didn’t know that. Works perfectly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭highball14


    Team I’d like to see start against Italy

    Porter Sheehan Bealham

    Henderson Baird

    Coombes JVDF Doris

    Casey Carbery

    Henshaw Hume

    Balacoune Keenan Hansen



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