Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] Spoilers

cannonballTaffyOjones · 14-02-2022 11:01am

This guy nails it

Mr Crispy · 14-02-2022 12:02pm

Stopped watching at "woke disaster".

Nody · 14-02-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628352#Comment_118628352

Your loss because he's actually correct in this case where that's the stated goal is not to stay true to material, use it correctly (female dwarf without beard, again...) but simply to try to twist it for political signal politics instead as stated by the director (the strongest feminist powerful character has to wear plate mail and sword and be a tomboy etc.). This is exactly what went wrong with the Discworld adaption as well; turning some incredible powerful female characters into parodies of what they think a strong female lead should be (i.e. female batman) rather than actually show the strength that was already there. And it's already being lined up that any criticism of not following the material or lore, adding new characters for the sake of it etc. is all because you're a racist white misogynist who don't like colored people in the series. Exactly as they did with WoT, Ghostbuster 2016 etc. as well when in reality it's polluting a good story with signal politics ruining the story and the show. Then when it does bad it's because "people are racists" when in reality it's because no, you did a **** story telling by ramming in something not needed into the story in a hamfisted way.

pixelburp · 14-02-2022 12:15pm

"Geek culture" is now such that when I see a YouTube presenter with the big podcast mic, the "webcam" presentation setup, the background of a room full of merch, that overt presentation of "fanboy" ... I just can't take their opinion seriously. Ironically it screams inauthenticity, combined with trotting out the same, tired argument over woke this and - it's just boring. Twice over for a show not even released yet that you could even seriously argue a 20-minute video has merit; it can't or doesn't possess any more legitimacy than our quickly-typed opinions here - but that's the Era of Content. Always Be Commenting.

Book adaptations are as old as TV and cinema itself and I've witnessed my fair share of both borderline sacrilegious adaptations - or indeed sublime ones. Currently watching "Reacher" for instance, where that Amazon show made the effort to make the hulking Jack Reacher more physically accurate than Tom Cruise's cinematic version. So it's not like the physical appearance doesn't always matter; but in that case, Reacher was meant to be a giant, muscular creature people underestimated.

pjohnson · 14-02-2022 12:17pm

I cant tell what story this is meant to be telling.

Mr Crispy · 14-02-2022 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628412#Comment_118628412

After reading your explanation I'm even more convinced that I lost nothing. By the way, using the term "coloured people" doesn't help your argument.

pixelburp · 14-02-2022 12:31pm

The only way to know what value or merit the show has... is to watch it and see. Anything else - trying to parse the meaning of the obvious hype a production team will talk up, or diving into the ethnicity of its cast - is pointless.

Let's watch the show, as divorced from bias and minds made up as possible. Anything else is just time wasted. Or waffle, as in the case of listening to what producers or cast have to say about the show. Proof of the pudding n' all.

14-02-2022 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628064#Comment_118628064

My worries come from studio direction and influence, to be honest. There "appears" to be a common thread in look and visual decisions. I'm not cancelling my Prime over a trailer but I'm not excited by that

14-02-2022 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628076#Comment_118628076

As in what is the CW or what makes it feel CW, to me?

14-02-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628494#Comment_118628494

This.

I will give it a fair run, being honest it being LOTR I will give it more than that to find its footing, but I can not feel a little apprehensive with their fantasy adaption to date.

Your Reacher point is spot on but it also highlights where deviating from a core aspect of the author's intent often has large ramifications.

First Reacher film was a very entertaining Tom Cruise vehicle and I liked it a lot, as a smart action film, but as a reader of the books I had to completely separate the two.

I don't want to have to do this with LOTR because, well, it's bloody well LOTR. When we look at how meticulous Tolkein was, in the appendices/Unfinished Works/Silmarilian and how it all comes together I get nervous when some showrunners seem to be deciding that their vision is better.

I'm well able to be proven wrong; I dislike Star Wars (all of it). I think its premise of the Dark/Light is weak and hated the rules the Jedi had to live by. On the other hand I think that The Mandalorian is one of the best things on TV, right now, and have waited for Bobba Fett to release all episodes before starting to watch.

I'm hoping that this proves me wrong also, it's too early to make any concrete views on this but I am a bit nervous

seraphimvc · 14-02-2022 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628077#Comment_118628077

Nerdrotic is actually a channel that I would recommend if one is into reviews/opinion on pop stuff - the guys (comic/book fan who used to own comic book store for 10 years in LA) is actually open minded and welcome criticism and yes his criticism is sharp and brutal (and he is often quite right on the big pile of woke sh!t from recent years). He is the guy who coined "MSheU" aha.

And ya i couldn't care less to the source material (e.g. black elf, dwarf women beard etc), nothing to disrespect Tolkein because i am actually cool with whatever hell the team came up with - but ya jesus christ don't literally go against the original writer's intention on the world settings etc etc. Is like the 2016 Ghostbuster - some people can go on to make their story if they want to do XYZ rather than literally ruin some other (great) original works.

So ya even if i couldn't care less on the modernized/woke crap, it has been proven again and again that if the production doesn't respect the source material - chances is low we will get a decent product. Is like the writers forget how to write a decent story for characters while they are too busy on ticking the boxes for those PC woke crap. My expectation was "ok lets see..." and then now "oh well...".

DeadHand · 14-02-2022 1:49pm

As a person who happily devoured JRR's work as a child, it saddens me to see his visions misrepresented to serve contemporary political agendas.

Loafing Oaf · 14-02-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628729#Comment_118628729

What is CW? Clone Wars?

Ash.J.Williams · 14-02-2022 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/105263567#Comment_105263567

were they?

14-02-2022 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628929#Comment_118628929

The network who make the Arrow-verse, The 100 and the like. They have a very similar colour palette and shooting style across a lot of their productions (along with much angst thrown in)

pjohnson · 14-02-2022 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628430#Comment_118628430

This will be the thing that tanks the show. Its already a zeitgeist for a cultural/woke PC battleground so the actual content is irrellevant.

Damn shame. Was interested by the idea of a show but alas.

14-02-2022 2:40pm

Wait a fecking second. I've been staying away from any plot materials (did not want spoilers)...

Is that actually

That is Galadriel?

And new characters??

New characters? There were so many characters in the Trilogy that they had to condense some into a single Arwen. What the hell do we need with new characters and (potentially so) new plot?

Nody · 14-02-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629113#Comment_118629113

Because the writers have said outright that "Can we come up with the novel Tolkien never wrote and do it as the mega-event series that could only happen now?". Yes, of course they can be as good writers as Tolkien and tell a story Tolkien has not written; who ever would doubt their ability seeing that they only got one failed movie credited to them in total... And the answer is Yes to your questions due to the above.

Sudden Valley · 14-02-2022 2:58pm

I wonder if this series doesn't do well will that finish off any interest in any both middle earth adaptions. Messing with adaptions doesn't usually bode well- the Hobbit films were particularly terrible.

NIMAN · 14-02-2022 3:00pm

From my kids watching YouTube presenters, I know that there will be hundreds of hours of chat now about less than 60sec of a trailer.

titan18 · 14-02-2022 3:05pm

Tbh, just need to look at the WoT series to know that it's very likely Amazon will butcher this too. I've zero faith in them after that.

BruteStock · 14-02-2022 3:18pm

Another guy who gets it. . Interesting that his video has far more likes than the actual trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJbAbe2yyo&ab_channel=TheCriticalDrinker

Sonics2k · 14-02-2022 3:21pm

So, I've never been hyped for this. I don't trust Amazon (or many other studios) to do justice to Tolkeins world.

But are people really getting mad about there being black Elves? And a female Dwarf without a beard?

Like it'd be nice to see all Dwarves with beards, but that's hardly 'woke', it's just lazy.

pjohnson · 14-02-2022 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629113#Comment_118629113

Yep. The main character of this thing is a Battle Warrior-version of Galadriel, for some baffling reason.

Fùck knows why as Galadriel never fought wars.

This show is supposedly set in the 2nd Age where in actuality Galadriel basically spent her whole time using mostly her own ridiculously powerful magic (and not her ring) to keep Sauron the hell away from Lóthlorien.

Sauron didn't even dare challenge her there as she was one of the few things he was truly scared of. She never fell for his crap as Annatar and had warned Celebrimbor not to trust him.

And in the first age she didnt even believe it was worth trying to fight Morgoth at all as he was just too powerful.

This "Warrior Galadriel" doesnt fit anywhere and is horrifically out of character.

cannonballTaffyOjones · 14-02-2022 3:46pm

Another good take ..

https://youtu.be/9QJbAbe2yyo

14-02-2022 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629647#Comment_118629647

They are writing the tale that Tolkein couldn't?

Oh crap. I'm out, honestly, as I don't want to just be negative throughout the entire thread

Sudden Valley · 14-02-2022 4:04pm

It is probably lucky that youtube doesn't allow downvotes to be visible on that trailer. Wheel of time was god awful and changed a lot from the original source material but still seemed to get good viewership figures so perhaps these sorts of controversy sells.

Its easy just to depict youtube geek culture negative commentators as the cliched comic book guys we've seen in the Simpsons, The Big Bang theory and Spaced so their sometimes legitimate concerns are ignored.

Nody · 14-02-2022 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629915#Comment_118629915

I got a feeling WoT will struggle with viewership numbers in the second season simply because there were quite a few "Meh" comments coming from the non book readers that I've seen after season 1 and not a "omfg best series ever!" to it. Add in the non book readers and book readers not engaged or liking it and who's exactly left to increase the viewership? This series however has a much bigger hill to climb because they have already committed to five seasons; what happens if season 1 struggles and fails to draw in people let alone season 2 and 3 etc.?

pjohnson · 14-02-2022 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629772#Comment_118629772

Apparently thats the pitch.

But then they are dragging Galadriel, Dain IV, Elrond, Celebrimbor, Isildur and others into it so they are trying to be original while dragging characters from the actual Tolkien stories into it....

I cant see it working at all like literally none of it can be within an arsès roar of being anyway canonical to anything in Middle Earth so whats the point?

TheIrishGrover · 14-02-2022 5:12pm

Oh FFS SJW woke virtue-signalling wally-bending elven-biasing LGBTQing snarf-nerfing Poodle-pandering....

The WORLD IS ENDING!!!! Black Elves!!!!! POSSIBLY strong female characters!!!

Abandon hope all ye who enter after 1 min of screentime

I'll wait. I'll watch. I'll make up my own mind and not just to conclusions based upon my own preconceptions or prejudices. I am looking forward to check this out and giving it a fighting chance.

Imagine. Not all cast members in Jackson's trilogy were from Wales/England area. And yet it still worked. Hobbiton? My GOD!!! It wasn't filmed anywhere NEAR the UK! Minas Tirith? Pretty far from Florence. I blame an antipodal bias!!!

Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

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Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] Spoilers