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Kilkenny GAA Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭brookville


    Id also like to see Shane Walshs name added to the list of inside forwards who can score goals. I also agree we need to presist with butler at corner back and others. Butler took a bit too much out of the ball but he'll learn for this. James maher is another option on the half back line but infairness to cody he is trying lads and not persisting with great servants like fogarty,Buckley and wally. our half back line all scored from play and had a few wides ,brassil pulled a ball out for easy score,again these lads will learn from the experience. I will say kk had one forward to tie up yesterday and that was forde why wasn't a back set out to mark him?If given space he will point from anywhere but other than that It was a decent performance and much improved from the last day.I thought our midfield won the battle and kenny showed some lovely touches but deegans shooting let him down at times. The last ball should of being kept in play as others have said.Tom phelan is raw but he's honest and got a nice point but should of threw donnely out that ball for a better goal chance.Leahy made a hero out of Hogan hitting it where he wanted it.he really needs to take his chance this year. I don't think the mossy ff experiment will work but I hope padraig will stay at 11 he will take a bit of pressure off tj and eoin cody when they're back.Richie reid was again good Saturday altho if corcoran wasn't going to take one for the team Richie was slow to get out and do it. Billy Ryan despite not scoring was very dangerous and needs to use his speed and head for goal more often.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭blackcard


    I see only 5 definites for the championship;

    Eoin Murphy - needs to work on his puckouts

    How Lawlor, full back

    Padraig Walsh, centre forward

    Eoin Cody

    TJ

    Probables

    Paddy Deegan, a Cody favourite, gives 100 %. Midfield.

    Billy Ryan. Head down and go for goal.

    John Donnelly. Not at his best. But we need someone in the half forward line to compete for high balls. Could be Walter either but maybe better as a sub

    After that it is hunches. 5 backs, 1 midfielder and 1 forward required

    Tommy Walsh, Niall Brassil, Michael Carey, David Blanchfield and Conor Delaney.

    Midfielder Cian Kenny/Richie Leahy/Richie Reid

    Remaining forward Shane Walsh

    Subs Darren Brennan, Mike Butler, Cillian Buckley, James Maher, Connor Fogarty, Cian Kenny/Richie Leahy, Martin Keoghan, Alan Murphy, James Bergin, Walter Walsh, Richie Hogan



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭blackcard




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    As previously posted, unless the manager is committed to a "modern" game plan we're going nowhere. No point in short puckouts unless it's carried right through the field when necessary, with players moving about and not standing waiting for a dropping ball. The mantra of winning your own ball isn't enough anymore, you must have a plan to move it on quickly.

    Practice makes perfect. If we don't devote the required time in training to perfecting a modern game plan how can we expect to execute it on match day. If the manager is committed, the players will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭lim4ev


    if you include will o donoghue going off after a minute or so we were missing a 1/3 of our first team how can that be a near full strength team? yes some came on but if you think limerick were rocking for this game you're dreaming plus we led up to the 60th minute having played with 14 for the previous 20 and then fell away as they're nowhere fit enough. having said all that galway were impressive if I were a kilkenny man I'd be worrying more about galway than limerick



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭brookville


    I think we are definitely trying to adapt and going with the modern game and done some nice things last Sunday. What dissapointed me was in the last few mins when the game was In the melting pot Murphy in particular kept picking out Ronan maher and we won't know till the cut and thrust of summer where we are with the modern game. The last two matches will be good tests before the championship especially the Waterford match things will be heating up and the ballyhale lads back. I do expect conor browne and alan Murphy to be close to the team and someone like Shane Walsh could be a suprise this year like bergin last year.its good to see someone like John Walsh get a few minutes although he didn't do much. Like the last fee years anyone not on the panel one week could be close the following week. Lads like Robbie Buckley and luke scanlon are working hard with the extended panel hopefully we can get a few lads to strengthen things.For all the doom and gloom only Liam blanchfield and aidan nolan are the two big ones who didn't rejoin the panel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Brookville, I agree that we appeared to be trying to adapt to the modern game on Sunday. I also agree that we reverted to the old style late in the game. Why so? Is it back to my point that we're not practicing it enough in training? Is the manager fully committed to the modern game? If he is, then he needs to establish why the players aren't playing to his plan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JimmyCorkhill


    Just finshed reading Jackie Tyrrells autobiography - The Warrior Code.

    It was decent at best, kept saying the same stuff over & over again.

    How good a player was he? Obviously part of a very successful period for Kilkenny.



  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Alonzo Moseley


    Limerick by my my reckoning started 12 of their best 15 and Tom Morrissey came on. Only Cian Lynch and Hannon were missing, that's "near full strength" by any definition. And I do believe Limerick went hard at this game and wanted to put manners on Shefflin's Galway. Dominant teams never want to lose matches, even League ones, especially at home.

    And of course I am worried about Galway, and Wexford and Dublin. I'm not worried in the slightest about Limerick because I think it's unlikely we are good enough to meet them this year. I do believe however that while justifiably clear favourites for AI, Limerick are more vulnerable than generally perceived, as I dont believe they have a deep bench, their discipline is under the microsope, and most of all their profligacy in shooting. Sooner or later the 15-20 wides per game that is now almost normal for them, will doom them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Hannon came on too. Which or whether I believe Limerick will have a definite plan as to where they want to be week on week, month on month. Not so Galway with a new management team been installed there just a few months ago and not truly knowing what lies ahead with regards strength and conditioning etc. Limerick will be flying when they meet again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭brookville


    I'd be of the opinion that galway are very near their full championship team. They need two corner backs and evan niland and concannon will come into the forwards. G mac has gone back a good bit at 6 and young cathal o neill gave him a hard time. While Limerick are rightly favourites their squad could be tested. The delivery they give their forwards is excellent as is the off the ball movement. Right now I'd say clare and tipp won't get thru the round Robin and leinster will also be very tough again. We've galway and dublin away two very tough matches.Dublin have being good so far but I'm yet to be convinced and when the dust settles the lack of firepower will haunt them again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Village87


    Is it the top 2 in each group qualify for league semi finals or is there quarter finals this year. If its top 2 Kilkenny are in bother already. Will have to beat Dublin and Waterford to qualify



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭brookville


    Could be completely wrong but I thought the championship is two weeks after the league so its top of each group play in a final



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Final league group game March 19/20

    League semi final March 26/27

    League final April 2/3

    Championship starts April 16/17



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭therealdonster


    I think the whole lack of depth with Limerick is a tad over stated. While they may not have the number of hurlers that say Cork have they do know their best 15 and in fairness Cathal O'Neill would make most county stating 15's.

    Back to last Sundays match - I watched the recording of the match and it gas to be said that the ref didn't do Tipp any harm on Sunday. Our backs were penalised everytime there was contact or he was waving advantage for god knows what. There were a few incidents that I wanted to confirm as you obviously miss things at the match and only get one chance then. The free given against Huw after Leahy missed the goal chance in particular was a complete mystery. I would normally say these things balance out over a game but not so here. Billy Ryan and Walter were blatantly fouled a number of times with nothing doing. Padraig Walsh got booked for I'm not sure what, the only explanation offered from this numpty came in the form.of some arm motion which seemed to be what every supposed foul was for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Shane Dowling: Tipp-Kilkenny was like 'a poor training match'

    Former Limerick attacker Shane Dowling offered a scathing verdict on the Tipperary-Kilkenny league encounter in Thurles, describing it as "one of the worst games of hurling" he'd seen in a long time.

    Colm Bonnar's side scrambled out with the two points eventually, Jason Forde whipping over a free to leave the hosts a nose in front at the end, having withstood a second half Kilkenny fightback.

    However, Dowling was deeply unimpressed with the fare on show, characterising it as being akin to a "poor training match" and comparing it unfavourably to the game between Limerick and Galway on Saturday night.

    "It was one of the worst games of hurling I've seen in a long time," Dowling said on the RTÉ GAA podcast.

    "That may be an unpopular opinion. But if you saw some of the shots that players got off yesterday... if it was a training match and I was over them, I'd be pulling them in after 15 or 20 minutes.

    "You look at the Limerick-Galway game, how much of that match was down to quality players or great hurling? Yeah, bits of it were. But a huge amount was down to effort and workrate and tackles and hits and intensity.

    "There was none of that in the Tipperary-Kilkenny game, in my opinion.

    "Jason Forde was exceptional, he's a really good hurler. But, and I'm not being smart, if you're an inter-county player and you're getting that space, you should be putting the ball over the bar.

    "I just thought the quality on show, more so from Kilkenny, was really poor. I thought Kilkenny would win the game, I still think they should have won the game if you look at the couple of mistakes that were made.

    "I think both teams are a long, long way off what's going to be required to win an All-Ireland. I could be eating humble pie but I was very disappointed with what I saw yesterday.

    "I just thought it was like a very, very poor training match."

    Dowling was especially critical of Kilkenny, particularly their use of the ball. While he was keen to stress that there are quality players in the county, he found their wastefulness in possession alarming.

    "You look at Kilkenny, you look at Huw Lawlor, Paddy Deegan, Paudie Walsh, I think they're really good hurlers.

    "But how many times did somebody get a ball in and around their own 21 or 45, fire it down the other end of the field to two or three opposition players in space? I don't get what that's about.

    "Are teams not being coached now to try to maintain the ball? I get when you've new players coming in, it takes a bit of time. I know it's only the second round of the league.

    "I thought Tipperary were better, they tried to work the short game a lot more. There were snippets of it. There were also snippets of them hitting long ball as well. There were signs they were trying to do the right thing.

    "At least with Tipperary, I saw they were trying to work the ball through the lines. That failed at times and maybe it failed when they came under pressure.

    "But with Kilkenny, I just didn't see it."

    rte.ie/gaa



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭therealdonster


    Hard to argue with what Dowling says but at the same time he must have forgotten the majority of his inter county hurling career.



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭therealdonster


    'You're in survival mode and shipping big defeats. My heart goes out to the boys' https://the42.ie/5683031


    What would people think of reverting back to the 8 team Division 1 league? It would mean the top teams guaranteed playing each other every year and avoid these unfortunate hammering for Laois, Offaly etc. It just means two additional games which could be played either just before Christmas or by scrapping the pre season comps. It would also justify the big county panels by allowing teams to chop and change for games.

    A top 8 of:

    Kilkenny

    Galway

    Limerick

    Tipperary

    Cork

    Waterford

    Clare

    Dublin or Wexford

    With relegation semis for bottom 4 and semi finals for top 4. Top 2 get home venue for the semi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭davidx40


    Find it very hard to see us coming out of Leinster this year .....and it mighten be a bad thing might bring change sooner



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    I think it would be worse and there would be complaints that nobody care's about developing counties as Laois, Antrim Offaly etc. wouldn't ever play a top tier team apart from leinster round robin game or maybe a preliminary all Ireland quarter final, i think the only options are the current format or group of 10 which realistically would take too many weeks to complete, Offaly is an odd scenario they got promoted in the league ahead of Joe Mcdonagh teams while competing in Christy Ring, they've gone from playing Sligo, Derry, Wicklow etc. in last years championship to Limerick, Cork etc. in the league.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭brookville


    We said the same the last couple of years. It will be ultra competitive no doubt. Galway should get a bounce from Henry and dublin and wexford have started well but the jury is still out on the both of them. They've being poor enough the last few years when the squeeze came on.If we don't get out of the round Robin which is very possible do we think cody will finally go?Will he wait till Henry is finished in galway. Who will want the job or who would we like to see?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭JJs Left Hand



    Does anyone have a subscription to the Times that they can post this article from Sunday?



  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭conor05


    I’m not so sure Henry wants the Kilkenny job at the minute.

    He prob sees Galway as having more potential coming through than Kilkenny at present. A good move by him.

    I think Wexford will be good in Leinster this year. They are playing a nice brand of hurling under Egan mixing the short and direct stuff up nicely.

    Kilkenny v Wexford in Nowlan Park at the end of May in the last round robin game could be a belter if a Leinster final place is at stake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Both provinces look hugely competitive, the only team I'd put the house on qualifying is Limerick, everyone else could potentially be vulnerable, Galway were very good on Saturday but they've to back it up which they haven't always done in the last 3-4 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭jimmythesulk


    Have to agree with Dowling. The standard last Sunday was very poor. Cant see tipp coming out of munster. Galway and wexford a bit ahead of us in Leinster but surely we are ahead of dublin. They don't have enough firepower to do much damage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭lim4ev


    though he's a long term injury peter casey also didn't start but would be hopeful if we got out of munster he could play in July. I see where you're coming from re our bench I never believed it was as strong as the media made it out to be but o Neill showed promise adam English though young has huge potential plus there's a few others for eg Patrick o donovan again very young and certainly not a starter but could be next Yr mike casey is back in a fortnight plus you have the usual subs who can do a job for 20 minutes and remember if we stay injury free our first 15 are strong

    I disagree with you re kilkenny I think we could meet later in the year and would love if we did kilkenny will always get mine and any hurling persons respect. I'd have Waterford at 2 and Galway at 3



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭davidx40


    Outside of Henry , there's very little options .....Waterford will get a serious bounce out of Ballygunner and are my pick to win it out ....think they have the strongest panel



  • Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭WhatsGoingOn2


    wednesday february 16 2022


    GAA | DENIS WALSH

    Kilkenny have fallen off the pace in recent years, and their road back is long

    Denis Walsh

    Sunday February 13 2022, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times


    O

    nce the 2015 All-Ireland final was over Croke Park flushed itself quickly, and soon it was a private party. After their lap of honour the Kilkenny players lingered in front of the Hogan Stand, some of them sitting in a loose line on the grass, among the yellow streamers that had trickled back to earth. Richie Power, on his last day in the jersey, pucked a ball with his son, a special guest in his father’s playground.

    Just a couple of hundred Kilkenny supporters waited near the mouth of the players’ tunnel, and half an hour after the final whistle the champions left the stage. For Kilkenny, it was their 11th All-Ireland title since the turn of the century, all of them under the baton of Brian Cody. By then, euphoria was a trained response.

    Even though it was clear that, in the punctuation of their life together, that group of Kilkenny players was close to a full stop, it was always safer to use a comma instead. A year later, they reached the All-Ireland final again with a reduced team, fattened on core values, and flattened by Tipperary.

    Since then, their decline has been met with ongoing, guerilla resistance. Hardly a year has passed without one performance that carried echoes of their glory days, in tone at least. They reached another All-Ireland final in 2019, and pinched a couple of Leinster titles after that, but without the sense that anything was being restored.

    Now? They’re stuck: dealing with deficits, scrambling for solutions. After they beat Antrim by two points last weekend Cody described their performance as “very, very average”, which sounded like a pass mark on an ordinary level paper.

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    Where can they turn? It is 14 years since Kilkenny last won an U-21 All-Ireland — or U-20 as it is now — their longest fallow run in that competition. Five years ago, they lost a final in that grade to a crack Limerick team, and of the 20 players Kilkenny used that day in Thurles, 13 of them have since appeared in the senior championship, an extraordinary through-put that smells of desperation.

    Eddie Brennan, winner of eight All-Ireland medals, was manager of that team and has watched the comings and goings from a distance. “Some of them were brought in for a little while,” he says, “they weren’t good enough, they were let go, and then brought back in. That’s the reality. It’s not finger-pointing at anybody, it’s just saying, ‘This is what we have lads. We have to train them and do the best we possibly can with them.’”

    Ballyhale has generously resourced the Kilkenny forward line in recent years, and those players will be available to Cody again after the club championship ended yesterday; but in what state? TJ Reid has been bothered by a persistent groin injury, which restricted him to just one field session in the five weeks between the Leinster club final and the All-Ireland semi-final. None of the magic has left his hands, but the explosiveness in his legs has simply been eroded by time. Reid turned 34 in November, facing into his 15th season with Kilkenny. How much more can he give?


    Cody described Kilkenny’s win over Antrim last weekend as ‘very average’

    INPHO/BEN BRADY

    Eoin Cody, Young Hurler of the Year for the last two seasons, continues to develop into a player of enormous substance, but Adrian Mullen, his predecessor as Young Hurler of the Year, has stalled.

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    Richie Hogan, one of the most gifted forwards of the past 20 years, is still on the panel, but to what end? Haunted by bulging discs for years, it is 2017 since Hogan last started in every League and championship match in a season; last year he managed just ten competitive minutes, in the second half of extra-time against Cork.

    Hogan turned the 2020 Leinster final with a dazzling cameo off the bench, including an everlasting goal that was a blend of Diego Maradona and Lionel Messi. Maybe Cody is hoping for one more glorious intervention. But Hogan is 33, fighting a mutinous body.

    The broader picture is that the production line of high class talent has stopped. The 2014 minor title is the only under-age All-Ireland that Kilkenny have won in the past 14 years. “We stopped producing the Richie Hogans, the TJ Reids, the Richie Powers,” says Brennan. “We always had stand-out players coming through off minor teams — that had under age pedigree and that had under age success — so, that pathway was there. The view in Kilkenny, and it is no secret, would be that we have fallen behind, and perhaps we took our eye off the ball.”

    So, they’re chasing the curve. In the county secretary’s report to annual convention this issue was addressed in diplomatic terms. Credit was given to all the talent development work being done, “however, there is also a realisation,” wrote Conor Denieffe, “that other counties continue to raise the bar — originally set by Kilkenny in this area — and that we need to continue to improve our standards accordingly.”

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    With that in mind an initiative called the Kilkenny Coaching Project was established last year, under the leadership of Michael Dempsey. He had been Cody’s first lieutenant for 15 years, but he had also headed a major talent development committee in Croke Park, and this is his area of expertise.

    One of the criticisms of Kilkenny’s talent development in recent years was that not enough players from the glory years had been re-engaged as coaches. That is being addressed too, and it is understood that Brian Hogan, Paul Murphy and Aidan Fogarty are part of Dempsey’s team.

    “The bedrock of the plan is coaching,” wrote Denieffe. “We need to raise the standard of coaching and the standard of coaching sessions. We need to recruit top new coaches where required and continuously educate and improve all coaches.”

    Having fallen off the pace, catching up can be a slow and tortuous business, as Cork discovered. For this year, for the senior team, there are no easy answers. Cody held five trial matches in the off-season, a really unusual approach for an inter county manager these days. But he was just double-checking, and triple-checking, in case they had missed somebody. The time of plenty is gone. Every penny is precious now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭JJs Left Hand


    Thanks for that. The headline made it sound more interesting and didn't realise the quote was lifted from the secretarys report.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭mullinr2


    We can't question the commitment of the players that we have at the moment, they give it their all. However there are just not good enough to win us an All Ireland. It will probably take us a couple of really good minor/u20 teams for us to win an All Ireland again. How far away are those teams who knows. It only takes one exceptional underage team to make a difference. Just look at Limerick. It will require a big effort to get the like of players we had coming through in the 00s.

    Out of the big 3, I can see both Cork and Tipp winning All Irelands before we do. There is maybe a kind of perception that if its not Cork or Tipp winning, then it's ok that we are not winning.



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