Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

I'm quite happy to correct you on this

A. The Tavistock clinic focuses primarily on the NHS

B. For anyone 16 to 18 to legally change their gender identity requires a declaration by a court to exempt them from the Gender Recognition Act

C. Currently a person undergoes psychological assessment, counselling and the transition over seen by consultants in Loughlinstown.

Gender Dysphoria was declassified as a mental disorder in 2019 by the WHO.

What specific part would of what I have mentioned as not being robust . Pick the specific points apart

And I share your concerns about the Tavistock but let's discuss the process here in Ireland. Open to discussion in good faith

Contract ended last year and there has been no referrals from the Tavistock since

All referrals are now from CAHMS

So it is true now

Well the fact that the contract was not renewed is a fact should bring some comfort

The issue has really nothing to do with advantages, testosterone, protecting women, or any of those hotly debated avenues of discussion.

The real issue is whether if one 'feels' they are a woman then they are a woman and everything should fall into place because of that.

Well?

To be brutally honest I would say no. I think it's really simple, it's tough luck if you are are trans and can't compete in the sex category you wish to in every respect a woman or man can.

And to be more brutally honest, I don't think that's a big deal.

Because in life sex categories don't play a major role in most people's lives, in respect of what one can and can't do, outside of biological sexual reproduction. Not any more anyway.

And I think this debate is not a practical one, it's a theoretical one. And and I don't think it's an important topic at all.

There are many people bigging up this trans issue and to be brutally honest, I don't think it's worth the controversy.

Trans is not a significant social issue. It never was, in the same way homosexuality is. There is a huge amount of marketing around trans, as in 'select your gender here' type of thing, and I think that is a little bit sick.

Gender is not fluid, gender is not something that is in ones brain that noone can see except yourself or any of that wishful thinking theoretical nonsense.

Trans athletes should never be allowed to compete in the sex category they desire. The people who advocate for it live in fantasy land imo. That is my considered opinion after getting a feel for what's been going on over the last few years.

People should be classified as regards what competition they can enter…based on their biologically defined / birth gender…

it’s not about what the competitors want or propose to need…it’s about fairness of competition, there are 108 entries to the woman's draw at Wimbledon..the sport isn’t all about them….therefore due to the biological, physical differential it’s not going to be fair all of a sudden if say Novak Djokovic declared he was to change gender and compete as a female… but some people think that’s hunky dory… he’s a physical powerhouse 6’3”… has up to an 128 kmph serve….. his physicality would destroy every female competitor 99 times out of 100.

look at golf… golfing powerhouse Jim Furyk can drive a ball 295 yards…. The majority of the most powerful females are around the 230 mark…if old Jim decided he wished to swap gender… there is a huge issue…

it makes a complete mockery of the sport.. ruins it as a fair spectacle for competitors AND fans alike….

i agree with the Pieterson comments it’s politics sticking it’s nose in sport… for political reasons…

That goes both ways .

It's political nonsense

You could say it is not that important a topic, but it can have huge importance for the women that this can negatively affect.

And it can effectively end womens sport.

Lets say your a young girl and you are one of the best girls at some sports discipline or other, you look a shoe in for a sports scholarship to go to a decent university, a university there is no way in hell you would be able to afford otherwise.

Meanwhile there is a young lad that is reasonably ok at the same sport, but there is no way he is good enough to get a scholarship.

Then one day he declares he is trans and feels like he is a girl.

He gets the scholarship the girl was about to get.

What about the women that lose out on a once in a lifetime opportunity of going to an olympics because someone that used to be a lad a few years before suddenly now claims they are a woman.

You point to one doctor/academic that has written an article and use that basically as a QED for your point.

First off ever hear the old saying "one swallow does not make a summer" ?

Secondly the writer in question has skin in the game in that he works with trans youths.

Thirdly he is not an expert in the field he is talking about.

Someone can have a degree in microbiology, be a lecturer and professor teaching and researching in the field, but it doesn't make them an expert in say virology.

Trotting out this guys opinions would be akin to trotting out the opinions of Luke O'Neill on the subject.

Why can't you grasp that ?

Also adopting a condescending attitude doesn't help you win any argument either.

Neurobiology is an appropriate field to understand the structures that lead to people being trans (or dysphoria as it used to be known and now redundant).

When you are on the precipice of trying to understand who you are as a person but society tries to denigrate it by dehumanising you and not listening to reasonable opinion then you create a militant group which is happening with a lot of the LGBT youth which takes away from a conversation.

Unfortauntely you need guidance and a mature hand to gently nudge you into conversation, Im quite happy to do that and am quite tolerant of your views even if I disagree with them. All I ask is you address the evidence above. You can link to papers, news articles and push your point. You have an ability to be articulate so I can take from that you can understand well what I am writing.

As I said above if he posted the evidence to back up his assertion I would be quite willing to engage in faith in good debate and Im being civil here with him. He proposed I was QED in displaying Turbans opinion, Ive also linked to two more articles and their content. There is also Gender Dysphoria removed from the American Diaganosticiains Manual . When most of the large body of evidence points against it yet all I have as a rebuttal is an attack on the Turban (who specialised in Neurobiology) then there is not much to really coutner as there is nothing to rebutt.

😂😂😂

Tantrum or what

Surgery is not in anyway necessary or mandatory for being trans and sometimes impossible for medical reasons. There is no such thing as "real", "non real" or "genuine" trans. Trans people exist. Some people have surgery. Some people don't. Honestly some people need to just get over it.

But my earlier point stated I don't care about women's sport. When I say trans people shouldn't be allowed to participate in profession sports of their desires, I mean it. The point is is that my argument doesn't depend on whether I care about woman's sport or not. I don't as it it happens, why would I. If I was a woman I might. I am not basing my arguments on giving a fck about women's pro sport. It's a general point I am making.

@jmayo

See above. I get what you are saying about how it could go badly wrong for pro sports women. All I'm saying is that the argument that trans-women could have an advantage is not the killer argument. That is a side issue. The killer argument is that transwomen are not equivalent to women, and it is on that basis I would deny them entry to women's pro sport. We are reaching the same conclusion but just in a different way.

And here we go again with the superiority.

"Me stupid, me need smart liberty_bear to show him error of my ways."

And once again you fail to notice I never ever argued trans people do not exist.

I never argued there is no such thing as legitimate trans people.

I have pointed out that the current situation is very open to being abused by men who can see a loophole.

And as sure as hell it will be abused by the types of people and indeed states that have long been linked to drug cheating in sport.

I did not argue that your aforementioned expert is not an expert in neurobiology and probably understanding the mental problems of someone who is trans.

But saying all that he is not a sport scientist that deals in the physiological aspects of a sports person, he is not an expert in the anatomical differences between the male and female bodies.

And no matter how many contortions, changing of gender labels or legal arguments you and others on your side make, no amount of drugs or no amount of surgery can turn a born and reared to adulthood male into a female.

If there were no differences between the sexes there would never have been separate competitions for women in the first place.

FFS how hard is that to grasp.

Ah FFS.

Yeah lets shut down the conversation and label people phobic.

I am proposing to shut down the loophole possibility altogether. That no such think can possibly happen.

That is why I'm saying that it's best for all if trans people are excluded from participating in pro sport of their trans gender. That'll fix it, once and for all.

There is no such thing as trans being integral in life, as some are promoting. It's an 'other' issue, in exactly the same way homosexuality is an 'other' issue. I'm happy with that as a gay person myself, because I know it means feck all in my life. My lived life is virtually identical to heterosexual peoples lives.

Trans on the other hand causes so many practical problems, such as the sports one. I'm sorry but frankly it's tough luck if you are born Trans and you are exuded from very small aspects of life. They can live their lives virtually identical to most cis gendered peoples lives, and it is all those rotten progressive lefties that are kicking up a stink about these minor issues.

In Snooker women are now recently permitted to play on the mens pro snooker circuit. A woman is never going to beat a man in snooker, in a sport that isn't even physical. Not at the top level anyway. A woman will never be the world snooker champion when they compete with men.

Lots of woman play snooker, but none of them will ever be a Ronnie Sullivan or anything on that kind of level.

How do you explain that, when it's not a physical sport?

women have better things to be doing with their time, I dont know much about the background of top class snooker players but I bet it involved a lot of skipping school and endless weekends in snooker halls as kids.

its almost a pattern, someone should study this strange patterned behaviour lol

I dont get your chain of thought unless you mean I should have used "girls" instead of "women" but my point was was that boys that go on to win sht as adults tend to be more obsessive as kids, Snooker isnt a brute force/physical game but depends on years of practice to get little movements right. Neither is it a "socially accpetable" sport for kids ie its not something done in schools.