Oh no the Farm levy again

epfff · 25-06-2021 2:01pm #1

I sold some stock last week. I had previous dealings with this plant over the years including this year and had them instructed not to deduct the farm levy but they made the deduction.

Not the end of the world or anything like that but I was minding the kids when cheque arrived and decided to contact my local ifa office to see the procedure for claiming back and prevent it from happening again instead of me having to specify/check with processor/mart each time I sold stock.

To my astonishment he advised me to deal with abp going forward if I wanted to be sure of avoiding farm levy. This response sorta got my back up and I perceived it that effectively farm organisations are putting a 0.15% tax on farmers that wish to deal with abp's opposition.

Next I enquired about claiming back to which they wanted the full remittance including tag numbers prices totals etc. Am I wrong in thinking it wrong that I should have to share what is commercially sensitive private information with a third party to rectify them putting there hand in my pocket without permission and not be compensated for my administration costs?

I have since discovered they have no records of who pays levy and processors/marts have no transparency on how much they collect before keeping a undisclosed share for administration costs.

Am I only one thinking that Mr Goodman may actually be right and on the side of good by not collecting this untraceable money without permission for farmers.

tanko · 25-06-2021 2:06pm

Ring the factory, they should send a cheque out straight away.

The IFA parasites won’t give it back anyway.

Sacrolyte · 25-06-2021 2:38pm

If you want the levy removed from your milk cheque must you contact Ifa or processor?

epfff · 25-06-2021 5:33pm

Sacrolyte wrote: »

If you want the levy removed from your milk cheque must you contact Ifa or processor?

Processor i believe

paddysdream · 25-06-2021 9:18pm

Just ring the factory and ask them to send on a balancing cheque next working day .No big deal and no point in ringing IFA as they are but one of 3 organisations getting some of this.
Had this issue couple of years ago .One factory where I go decided for some unknown reason to stop the IFA levy after not doing it for years .Rang as soon as I seen it on the sheet and had cheque in two days .
It wasn't the amount but rather the principle .
If people want to fund IFA ,ICMSA and Macra then no bother but it should be a simple opt-in levy with no fudging of who its for or what it is .
EIF levy always looks semi official whereas IFA/ICMSA/Macra levy would be clearer .

whelan2 · 25-06-2021 9:22pm

What does EIF stand for?

paddysdream · 25-06-2021 9:31pm

whelan2 wrote: »

What does EIF stand for?

European Involvement Fund I think .Something to do with funding lobbying in Europe which began in the 1970's .
Thats my understanding of it anyways .
Think it all goes into a pot and the 3 mentioned (IFA, ICMSA and Macra) get proportional shares of it .
Its a good thing if people want to support any or all but my peeve with it that its a stealth levy ie unless you opt out its taken .Even at that some have to be told a few times to stop it. They are on shaky enough ground so there should be no bother getting it back although an odd factory employee will try and convince you its not optional .
All that said think Boormalt suppliers have/had the levy as compulsary for some reason .

Lime Tree Farm · 25-06-2021 9:32pm

paddysdream wrote: »

Just ring the factory and ask them to send on a balancing cheque next working day .No big deal and no point in ringing IFA as they are but one of 3 organisations getting some of this.
Had this issue couple of years ago .One factory where I go decided for some unknown reason to stop the IFA levy after not doing it for years .Rang as soon as I seen it on the sheet and had cheque in two days .
It wasn't the amount but rather the principle .
If people want to fund IFA ,ICMSA and Macra then no bother but it should be a simple opt-in levy with no fudging of who its for or what it is .
EIF levy always looks semi official whereas IFA/ICMSA/Macra levy would be clearer .

EIF levy - didn't know that.
Had a look at the most recent Mart docs. One has Hospice, icmsa,IFA,EU fund. All are 0 except EU fund, which I presume is fixed. The second mart has EU fund only

paddysdream · 25-06-2021 9:35pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

EIF levy - didn't know that.
Had a look at the most recent Mart docs. One has Hospice, icmsa,IFA,EU fund. All are 0 except EU fund, which I presume is fixed. The second mart has EU fund only

Think EU fund is another name for it .Same sh*t ,different name .
There is definitely no statutory levy of that name as far as I know .
Is it 0.15% of your gross sale figure ?

Think you have it in a nutshell;
"EU Fund ,which I think is fixed "

Lime Tree Farm · 25-06-2021 9:50pm

paddysdream wrote: »

Think EU fund is another name for it .Same sh*t ,different name .
There is definitely no statutory levy of that name as far as I know .
Is it 0.15% of your gross sale figure ?

Yes it is. O.15
But why have they then listed the IFA and icmsa section as 0 - must admit I took all these deductions for granted.

Googled, you are correct, Irish independent article on it back in 2015 - unbelievable con

paddysdream · 25-06-2021 9:56pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Yes it is. O.15
But why have they then listed the IFA and icmsa section as 0 - must admit I took all these deductions for granted.

Answered above .
Most take it for granted and never question it .Ring the mart(s) in question.
Depending on who you get on the phone it will be either a case of here's your money or some spoof story about it being mandatory .
If you don't wish to pay it (and like I said its minuscule but that's not the point ) you are entitled to it back and tell them not to deduct it any more .

If you feel that its a good investment no bother .

paddysdream · 25-06-2021 10:00pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Yes it is. O.15
But why have they then listed the IFA and icmsa section as 0 - must admit I took all these deductions for granted.

Googled, you are correct, Irish independent article on it back in 2015 - unbelievable con

Not hitting at you but the amount of people who never question stuff amazes me.

Before anyone accuses me of IFA bashing I have no problem with the levy /what its for etc etc.Rather the slightly "unorthodox" way its named and deducted .
If Irish farmers wish to fund whomever then good luck to them ,just be clear about what it is and who its for and that its optional .

Lime Tree Farm · 25-06-2021 10:03pm

Much the same thing happening with tags, portion of price for icbf

leoch · 25-06-2021 10:40pm

How far back can u claim or look for ur eif...ifa ...money back from Mart's or factoris

paddysdream · 25-06-2021 10:47pm

leoch wrote: »

How far back can u claim or look for ur eif...ifa ...money back from Mart's or factoris

No idea as it only happened to me once and I rang about it as soon as I read the kill sheet and returns .

Would it amount to a whole lot in most cases ?
Probably get the auld spiel of "our records only go back x far " although would imagine any mart would be obliged to keep records for tax purposes for a few (8?) years minimum .
Worth a try perhaps .Think there was a bit about all this a few years ago when IFA and Larry fell out over ,I think, the purchase of Slaney Meats .Not too sure how far back people got refunded at the time though .

epfff · 25-06-2021 11:34pm

paddysdream wrote: »

No idea as it only happened to me once and I rang about it as soon as I read the kill sheet and returns .

Would it amount to a whole lot in most cases ?
Probably get the auld spiel of "our records only go back x far " although would imagine any mart would be obliged to keep records for tax purposes for a few (8?) years minimum .
Worth a try perhaps .Think there was a bit about all this a few years ago when IFA and Larry fell out over ,I think, the purchase of Slaney Meats .Not too sure how far back people got refunded at the time though .

Could that fall out have actually been about the percentage he got to keep for administration fees?
If the IFA wanted to cut his administration charge and number of farmers paying it reduced would it be profitable/worth while for him to collect?

Lime Tree Farm · 26-06-2021 7:11am

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/ifa-news/ifa-could-face-legal-challenge-on-levy-collection-system-37901654.html

I just took "EU Fund" as legit, thought it was something similar to the PSO levy

JohnChadwick · 14-02-2022 4:02pm

Can you claim this fee back off the mart for past payments?

Was just looking at old dockets and realised there's a 'farm organisation fee' which totals nearly 50 euro (half a tank of diesel in the jeep) for last 2 years.

Rang mart and said you need to fill in a form to get out of it for future payments. Not sure about claiming back retrospective levies yet tho, I didn't ask that on the call.

epfff · 14-02-2022 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630250#Comment_118630250

Quickest way to get mart to stop taking it from your cheque is to inform them you are going else where because they don't stop making deduction.

After dawn deducted from me last year i was informed by local ifa office that it wasn't there problem my contract was with the processor if I didn't want to pay it I could deal with abp.

I believe there is no record of how much any organisation collects for the fund or keeps for administration.

JohnChadwick · 15-02-2022 12:29pm

Yea the whole thing is fairly shady.

Surprised to see this 'opt out' style levy is still a thing.

I thought the IFA got a kick up the hole around 2015 on this, the European Involvement Fund it was know then.

15-02-2022 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634364#Comment_118634364

Blue in the face saying it, change the deckchairs/talking heads around in IFA all they like, it's the culture that stinks. That's why the opt out BS is still there.

JohnChadwick · 15-02-2022 1:41pm

On the opt out form (in fairly faded writing), a copy of this will be provided to the IFA to tailor their services.

Smells a bit like the priests years ago and their mass collections to be honest.

paddysdream · 16-02-2022 1:14am

Cannot see the need for an opt out form .Just tell them to stop taking the money from your cheque .

No need to be filing out forms or anything.

Maybe to get them thinking ask where this stands re Gdpr .

wrangler · 16-02-2022 7:49am

Can you not just tell the factory stop taking the money and not be making such bloody compliment out of it, such bloody childishness.

Members of IFA are either happy with the system or too lazy to go to meetings if they're not.

I have zero sympathy now with the way Irish farming is going now as I'm finished.

The delivery of IFA lobbying has paid me well, (and still is paying me well) and thousands of real farmers similar to me

wrangler · 16-02-2022 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638572#Comment_118638572

I'm telling posters on here to tell the factory agent not to take the levy since well before 2015, yet this complaining persists.

authors of their own demise

Just on that,a post on twitter said lately '' teh most profitable friesian bull calf now is a stillborn''....... makes you think !!!!!!!!

epfff · 16-02-2022 8:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638788#Comment_118638788

I find your last statement difficult to understand. I was of the opinion you had retired.

I do not know if I am a farmer, real farmer or waster. I do not have a large bfp, sucklers or a Vodafone mobile so the ifa have not spoke for me for the last 20 years so why should they be allowed to dip into pay without transparency or permission?

Can I take some of your rental income/bfp and keep doing it until you to request me stop?

epfff · 16-02-2022 8:48am

wrangler · 16-02-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638950#Comment_118638950

90% retired, tax free leases was lobbied for by IFA and the contributory pension, even for my OH, so our lobbying is still paying off for me

wrangler · 16-02-2022 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638950#Comment_118638950

It would've been a democratic decision when the levy was decided, there's meetings once a month in every county so unless you want to be spoon fed information it's out there for you. Levy is a fairer system for membership as there's such a difference in profit per acre for the different enterprise. It's like the GAA or any club there's plenty happy to leave a few to do the work...... and pay for the organisation.

Plenty prepared to ride on the coat tails of whichever organisation is doing the work for them

16-02-2022 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639639#Comment_118639639

Love the new slogan "Levies for all, democracy for some!"

wrangler · 16-02-2022 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639671#Comment_118639671

Majority of farmers would've been members of IFA when it was decided. We had some factory agents local that told farmers to stop the levy on all cattle they sent in so people round here can't claim ignorance

Laziness and leaving it to others would be a big part of the problem, either be a member and keep up or don't be a member, alot of the whingeing comes from non members. I never differentiated...... until now. If a farmer had a problem I'd never ask, but I would ask now if I was still there.

Members should get involved, non members get outa the way. They can't have resources now to help farmers that aren't paying so why should they As an ordinary member myself now I say it's a disservice to members that are paying

16-02-2022 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639748#Comment_118639748

Non members shouldn't have an associations hand in their pockets. Taking without prior permission is theft. The obvious reason it's an "opt-out scheme" is more likely that sfa would opt in.

wrangler · 16-02-2022 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639844#Comment_118639844

I'd say they have it well thought out, Your organisation is trying to take my income to give it to another. I know what I'd call that.

16-02-2022 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639865#Comment_118639865

Lobbying. Just like how yours took mine from me.

alps · 17-02-2022 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638801#Comment_118638801

How is that...it costs €35 to have him taken away....

wrangler · 17-02-2022 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644842#Comment_118644842

That's probably the least you'll lose on him if he lives

epfff · 17-02-2022 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644924#Comment_118644924

Advertisement on done deal offering money for them alive from 10 days old. I have have only limited knowledge of costs for first 10 days of a dairy calves. Are they that expensive to feed or am I missing something?

wrangler · 17-02-2022 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645046#Comment_118645046

Just because the dairy farmer gets too much for them doesn't mean the calf makes money, up till thei year teagasc advised they were worth a minus figure to any one feeding them on.

Paying too much for them and Feeding them on and then blaming IFA, factories, bord bia , teagasc because they made no money is only childish

epfff · 17-02-2022 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645212#Comment_118645212

I agree with all that but I don't get how a dead calf is profitable or related to the farm levy?

alps · 17-02-2022 11:27am

No...it would be better to pay the €35 euro dead collection charge than 12c levy on an €80 calf..

Donald Trump · 17-02-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645212#Comment_118645212

I know a local fella who was mad looking them a few years ago. He just wanted to bump up his numbers cheaply because he had some idea that there might be a scheme brought in to reduce numbers in the future.

Bass Reeves · 17-02-2022 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645212#Comment_118645212

I would not agree with a lot of Teagasc figures. Most are based on so call efficient high input systems. Beef is very unforgiving of costs. As well you can be a busy fool bring cattle in and out for ration, aiming for optimal daily weight gains to achieve the same or less of a daily margin that a lower costs system provides.

At last summer prices HO friesian bullocks hanging 345KG DW on average would have average around 1370-1400 euro. In a moderately costed well run system these cattle would leave a margin of 5-600 euro assuming a calf price of 75 euro at 21 days.

wrangler · 17-02-2022 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645880#Comment_118645880

I doubt it, there's no way you'd get a friesian to 350kg for €1000, I remember Adam woods costing friesian calves last year and there wasn't a hope. he was budgeting for a very fancy thrive too. The cattle you have at home are likely to be sold at 27+mths so your's have three grazing seasons and you've paid a very poor price for them during their second grazing season which has completely skewed your view of friesian buls

wrangler · 17-02-2022 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645737#Comment_118645737

I didn't claim a dead calf was profitable, the post I quoted said it was more profitable than a live calf

Bass Reeves · 17-02-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118648368#Comment_118648368

Fancy thrive costs money. When you decide for optimum thrive all the time and introduce bales in during the summer and are grazing reseeded ground the costs go crazy. When you are getting the gain off grass its a cheap system. If you decide to pump with meal at a young age or during the second winter you cannot make money. I stand over a cost between 8-900 hundred euro to carry a calf from 21 days to slaughter at 30 months in a summer finishing system.

Oh no the Farm levy again

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