SEAI’s on-street public charge point scheme for Local Authorities

cannco253 · 01-02-2022 6:10pm #1

I brought this up before, but thought it was worth updating again in 2022.

I got the response below from the Climate Delivery Division of the Department of Transport. The document dated August 21 linked at the end is worth a look if you haven't seen it before. You'd like to think that whenever the OLEV is eventually set up this will get a bit more focus.....maybe

The scheme was announced in July 2021, seems like a bit of a disaster so far given the extremely low uptake and nothing new since the announcement of the first approvals. I'm well aware of the funding gap between the grant and overall cost, but how much longer can Councils/LAs ignore BEV/PHEV drivers?

"Dear XX,

The Public Charge Point Scheme, which is administered by the SEAI, continues to be available during 2022 to provide local authorities with a grant of up to €5,000 to support the development of on-street public chargers. The primary focus of the scheme is to provide support for the installation of infrastructure which will facilitate owners of electric vehicles, who do not have access to a private parking space, but instead rely on parking their vehicles in public places near their homes to charge their EVs. It should be noted that this scheme facilitates the installation of standard charge points.

To date, letters of offer have issued to Louth County Council ( one application) and Dublin City Council (two applications) in 2021, to install a total of 29 charge points within their administrative areas.

3 applications approved (1 Louth, 2 Dublin City Council)

19 charging stations

29 charging points*

Value (Total) €143,038

*A charging station can be dual which results in two charge points being available for cars to use.

The Department is currently reviewing the Scheme to ensure that it is as effective as possible in driving the decarbonisation effort.

I am also aware that a report was published by the CCMA on the provision of guidance to local authorities on the provision of charging infrastructure. The document is available for viewing online at

https://www.lgma.ie/en/publications/general-publications/local-authority-electrification-of-fleet-and-ev-charging-guidance.pdf

"

kanuseeme · 01-02-2022 6:33pm

7500 a charging station that can be ICEd, excellent value there.

innrain · 01-02-2022 7:58pm

The Public Charge Point Scheme has been in place since September 2019 to provide funding to local authorities for the development of on-street public chargers. The primary focus of this scheme is to provide support for the installation of infrastructure which will facilitate owners of EVs, who do not have access to a private parking space but rely on parking their vehicles in public places near their homes, to charge their EVs.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2020-10-13/33/

So the grant is in place since Sept 2019 or 2 and a half years ago. In this period 16k new EV got registered from 6k already registered before Sept 2019. That is nearly 73% of the whole EV lot.

It is interesting how the same minister "launches" in 2021 the old grant which was in place before his time.

The grant was supposed to help install 1000 chargers

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/councils-to-install-up-to-1-000-on-street-electric-car-charging-points-1.3996963

the_amazing_raisin · 06-02-2022 10:12pm

Local councils are doing what they do best, nothing 🙄

I've been on to my councillors telling them to pull the finger out, to be fair to the Greens lad he got back saying he was pushing for it too. He drives and electric Fluence apparently, so that's bonus points in my book

Still no chargers installed though, so he's still on -99 points instead of -100 like everyone else

markpb · 06-02-2022 10:35pm

That scheme might be well intended but it’s not a good idea. It puts the work of finding a company to install the charge points on the LA and also forces them to figure out how customers should pay for it. DLR installed a bunch in Sandyford recently and of course, it’s another app that needs to be downloaded and another company to register with. DCC pondered it for a long time and then threw the ball to eCars.

A better approach would have been a framework tender to create a list of approved companies that can supply hardware or professional services to any council. An even better idea would be to create the EV charging equivalent of eToll so any operator installing for an LA or government agency would have to support an inter-operable solution so customers would register once and use those details everywhere.

This is the kind of stuff that central government should be good at, not making money available and ignoring the complexities in actually spreading it.

ted1 · 06-02-2022 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592535#Comment_118592535

ParkingTag should look at being this provider they already work with councils and have a system in place that could integrate charging

the_amazing_raisin · 07-02-2022 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592535#Comment_118592535

Or just force the charging providers to accept contactless payment

I think apps are fine if you get a discount rate and you're using the charger frequently. It would suit residents who can't get home chargers

markpb · 07-02-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593770#Comment_118593770

I assume there's some reason why the EV suppliers prefer app/RFID to contactless card. I'm not sure what it is for the 50/150kW charge points but I can definitely understand it for an on-street 7kW charge point like the ones that DLR are rolling out. Adding contactless EMV POS to a large number of those would be prohibitively expensive.

innrain · 07-02-2022 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593933#Comment_118593933

Most vending machines have the contactless terminals. However, they are for indoor and more or less supervised locations. Having outdoor and vandal proof terminals for less than 5 quid transactions I'd say it get very expensive On top of that is the whole complication of open end sale. When you buy from a vending machine you first select the product/price then authorize the payment. With the charging you do not know the price until you end the charging session. You need to pre-auth an amount and having/using this facility is expensive. Ad-hoc payment through a website/scanning a QR code is a simple solution and widely/successfully used for other purposes, however, the account with billing details is going to be the cheap solution.

the_amazing_raisin · 07-02-2022 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593933#Comment_118593933

Basically it's down to customer lock in. It's hard to make money selling electricity to EV drivers, the cost of the grid connection is so high that the chargers need to see constant use to make money

So the charging companies try to lock in customers using apps/RFID cards and subscription deals. Also selling their customer data makes a few euros

the_amazing_raisin · 07-02-2022 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594057#Comment_118594057

Well, you could have a single vandal proof terminal controlling a bank of chargers, and RFID readers on the chargers for anyone who wants to pay that way

ted1 · 07-02-2022 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594057#Comment_118594057

onstreet parking machines have contact less payments. Most are handling less than 5 euro transactions.

the_amazing_raisin · 07-02-2022 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594491#Comment_118594491

Really? I've only ever seen machines in multistorey car parks that take contactless. All the on street parking around Dublin and Fingal seems to only take coins or force you to use an app

Must be taking advice from the charging companies 😬

markpb · 07-02-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595557#Comment_118595557

DLR parking ticket machines accept payment by card.

ted1 · 07-02-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595557#Comment_118595557

Look closer …

they’ve had them since 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/dubcham/status/932708866156105729

the_amazing_raisin · 07-02-2022 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595660#Comment_118595660

Nice, I'll have to keep an eye out for those 👍

They could absolutely have something similar controlling a bank of chargers. Just plug in, select your charger, tap your card and go

If course if they being REALLY clever they'd integrate it with the parking fees, so you don't have to visit 2 machines. Might cause some heads to explode from all the extra thinking though 😂

innrain · 07-02-2022 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594491#Comment_118594491

Do they? Sorry I stopped using them for good years now. The app is way more convenient for me.

But again you know the amount you're paying. The lampost chargers from shell are probably a couple of hundred if you add tap module you're doubling its price. Plus the upgrade of parking meters came as a cost saving measure reducing the need for personnel to collect the coins. It is a nice to have but I personally would prefer the app.

the_amazing_raisin · 08-02-2022 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118595971#Comment_118595971

Yeah but you're likely using it frequently enough that it makes sense to have the app. What if you were on an overnight trip and wanted to destination charge? It's a lot of effort for one charging session

I don't think a contactless terminal would add a lot of cost and as I said before, it doesn't have to be a 1:1 ratio, a single terminal could take payment for any number of chargers

And you can still have the app or RFID cards for frequent users

One model which I think could work for paid parking area would be to have a cash rate which is time based and includes parking. So you pay for 2 hours parking and can plug in

You could also have a per kWh rate for people who sign up to the app. This would suit people who have parking permits so they would just be paying for the electricity. There could even be a discounted night rate for residents who need to charge overnight

cannco253 · 16-02-2022 12:21pm

https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2022/02/07/more-car-charging-points-needed-in-tipp/

Mon 7 Feb 2022

In reply to a notice of motion from Cllr Andy Moloney, the council stated that there is limited financial support available for the installation of EV infrastructure and significant costs in site preparation, network connection fees and annual running costs. "Alternative renewable fuel options such as hydrogen and HVO (Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil) are coming on stream, which will be more economical.

"The general view is that the private sector will continue to expand the rollout of public EV charging infrastructure and the role of the local authority will be to assist EV charging point operators in the operations and maintenance of installed public charging facilities. "

cannco253 · 16-02-2022 12:25pm

https://carlow-nationalist.ie/2022/02/05/carlow-needs-to-get-ready-for-the-coming-wave-of-electric-cars/

FEBRUARY 05, 2022

"CONCLUSION

Whether we are enthusiastic or not, whether we want to change to EV or not, even if we are an enthusiastic promoter of cycling, EVs are coming to Carlow in large numbers and will require a significant investment in infrastructure by 2025 and a major ramp-up until 2030. The burden of cost will be spread between local and national government, private charge providers and private accommodation providers. Nevertheless, it is 100% the responsibility of Carlow County Council to plan for the infrastructure and drive the adequate roll-out of EV infrastructure."

Note that Eamon is involved with Range Therapy (installing battery packs to Nissan Leafs)

cannco253 · 16-02-2022 12:31pm

https://www.echo.ie/modern-solar-powered-office-space-on-the-edge-of-tallaght2/

"The former head office of Partas is now an ultra modern private office space and café, replete with a soundproof media room, air purifying technology, underfloor heating, lighting and eight EV chargers all powered by solar energy.

Construction work was carried out in 2020, an investment of €1.5m, courtesy of funding from a variety of sources – the bulk of it from Enterprise Ireland with additional funding from South Dublin County Council and Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI)."

cannco253 · 16-02-2022 12:40pm

https://www.anglocelt.ie/2021/11/22/more-charging-stations-needed/

Mon 22 Nov 2021

"Cllr John Paul Feely (FF) said electric cars are not suitable for everyone: “We had experience of an electric car in our house, but we had to get rid of it because it was just not suitable. It’s great for someone who lives in a town, or someone who can live without a car, but if you rely on a car for more than a daily journey to a fixed location then the technology is just not there.”

Cllr Feely said there are many benefits to the electric vehicle but said, because of the gap between urban and rural use, it was not feasible for many people, continuing: “That said the technology will improve and we are very much behind the times. The only fast charger in the county is outside the courthouse here in Cavan and, if you drive west, the next one is in Sligo.”

When challenged on their investment by this newspaper, ESB responded by saying that they are currently undertaking a €20m upgrade programme, with support from the Irish Government’s Climate Action Fund, to expand and enhance the country’s EV charging network.

In terms of the Northwest meanwhile, a spokesperson noted that the State-owned electricity company are in the process of assessing “suitable sites” and will have further high-power and fast charger sites being rolled out in the region in the next 18 months. “This includes new charging hubs at Kells (m3) and Carrick-on-Shannon, which is of benefit to EV drivers in Cavan making longer journeys south and west,” the spokesperson said."

Old diesel · 16-02-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639879#Comment_118639879

Id like to know how hydrogen is more economical.

I suspect the council guys criteria is that for him Hydrogen and HVO means he doesn't have to do anything.

Wheras he's looking at EV infrastructure in a negative way thinking "loads of hassle".

Its so short sighted and its not even clear how hydrogen and HVO will deploy on large scale

liamog · 16-02-2022 3:47pm

"Cllr John Paul Feely (FF) said electric cars are not suitable for everyone: “We had experience of an electric car in our house, but we had to get rid of it because it was just not suitable. It’s great for someone who lives in a town, or someone who can live without a car, but if you rely on a car for more than a daily journey to a fixed location then the technology is just not there.”

You'd almost think that we don't have electricity supplies to rural Ireland.

cannco253 · 16-02-2022 4:01pm

I just wanted to highlight some stories I read recently that involved councils.

If the people responsible at a council level don't understand the requirements both now and in the future, there's no way they will make any decisions at all, always something else that will get priority given the costs involved.

It is interesting how some councils are moving (albeit forced) to using EVs for their own use and have their own private chargers on site that they somehow can find the money for.

https://www.galwaycity.ie/news/2212/59/Galway-City-Council-Driving-Change-with-Zero-Emissions-/d%2CNews%20Detail

"This initiative is fully funded by Galway City Council"

Galway City Council have absolutely no comment on potential EV charging infrastructure whenever I pester them.

On a slightly different tangent, does anyone know of any schools that installed EV chargers? Did this get cancelled due to Covid?

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/bc4d6a-minister-mchugh-announces-30million-investment-in-405-schools/

“Our focus is on three fronts – we have prioritised money to upgrade and improve life safety systems like fire alarms and detection and emergency lighting; we are funding new surfaces on play areas and car parks; and schools will be obliged to plan for electric vehicle charging.

the_amazing_raisin · 16-02-2022 4:22pm

Planning for EV charging != Installing EV chargers

I find the whole council EV vans interesting. I'm definitiely all for councils making the switch, but I agree that it's quite annying that they will install charging for their own vehicles without lifting a finger to install public charging

I'm comparing this to Dundee in Scotland who installed an EV rapid charging park on council land

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDpblnu9xUE

There's plenty of bits of council land often near the center of towns. For example in Swords there's a Fingal CC yard on Watery lane, about 5-10 mins walk to Main street

Installing a charging park there would give some great charging resources to visitors and residents alike, encourage people to visit some of the small businesses in the town which constantly seem to be struggling, and make some money for the council

It's literally a win-win-win, and of course the council will never go for it 🙄

shanec1928 · 16-02-2022 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118641328#Comment_118641328

well bar home charging the area that he would be referencing to is north leitrim then along the border to cavan, remove the destination charging at hotels and its a bit of a black spot.

markpb · 16-02-2022 5:24pm

To be fair, the hard part for the councils is knowing where to install them and how to activate/pay for them. When installing for their own fleet, both of those problems go away. There's definitely a lack of experience in the LAs at the minute.

DLR seem to be lightly better. They have a bunch of free 7/22 charge points at each park car park. More recently they have a bunch of billable streetlight-attached charge points in Sandyford, presumably that will act as a template for similar areas in the rest of the county.

That still leaves the problem of needing yet another app and no integration with paying for parking but those aren't insurmountable. They just need oversight.

Dubwat · 16-02-2022 8:02pm

Speaking of councils... (Nottingham, UK) People without driveways could soon charge electric cars outside their homes

[Quote]Motorists in Nottinghamshire could be able to charge their electric vehicles outside their homes even if they don't have driveways. The county council is to trial enabling residents to fund cable channels cut into the footway so that they can connect their electric vehicle to their household’s electricity supply. Anyone wanting to do it can apply to the county council, which will consider each request on its own merits. The trail was approved at a meeting of the county council's transport and environment committee[/quote]

[quote]“Working in partnership with Nottingham City Council and district councils as part of the Go Ultra Low programme, electric vehicle charging points have been installed in public car parks at 23 locations across the county.... "The proposals will also involve investigating potential EV charging options located on the highway which would be available to all of the public to use, including where in the county these may be trialled."[/quote]

theinferior · 16-02-2022 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118642759#Comment_118642759

This would be absolutely brilliant. I would happily pay for such a channel.

the_amazing_raisin · 16-02-2022 11:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118641328#Comment_118641328

To be fair in some parts of the west the power drops every time there's a storm. That's just the reality of living in an isolated area

Personally if I were in that situation it wouldn't stop me going for an EV. I'd be looking at installing solar PV and maybe a couple of small turbines for electricity

Plus a backup generator, just in case

Anyway, our right and honourable twit from Leitrim provides scant enough details. What car was he driving? Could have been a Leaf24 which lets face it, isn't an optimal car for long journeys. Some more details about why it didn't work would be helpful for the reader

Just more of the usual "electric cars bad" nonsense 🙄

zg3409 · 17-02-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644083#Comment_118644083

A councillor is probably one of the worst people to move to EV. They are like travelling salesmen. They attend meetings all over their county, often 2+ meetings in the same evening. They often need to show their face for a few minutes for photo ops, cutting ribbons, meetings with businesses, community groups, individuals, possibly heading to Dublin multiple times a week, heading to their office in multiple parts of the county. Even now they take selfies for Twitter, stand in front of things in the news etc.

For example when healey rae met Lucy on tv, it showed him constantly in the car on the way to show his face at funerals, event, often only staying a few minutes to shake hands and be seen. Many have a second full time job, which is often in management, meeting suppliers, doing deals etc.

They could easily cover 300+km a day, which most EVs would struggle to cope.

https://www.virginmediatelevision.ie/player/show/1024/192850/0/Living-With-Lucy

A councillor or politician with a crazy schedule is not ideal EV owner. There are some with EVs but often it's for show. It would get them to understand the issues and push for more public charging.

To try stay on topic the seai grant schene for councils should be 100% funding with a fixed amount given to each county. Say installation within 12 months. Then review then repeat and increase. A much better system would be to have a nationwide tender, linked to council selected sites, and install hundreds all over the country.

the_amazing_raisin · 17-02-2022 2:42pm

I agree with the tender process, except they'd probably just give it to Ecars 😬

The grants really need to be tied with regulations about which type of chargers are installed per location

It's nice that the occasional AC unit get installed on some random side street, but really a few DC units in town centres would be a much better option and to everyone's benefit

cannco253 · 17-02-2022 3:00pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/just-five-oireachtas-politicians-drive-electric-cars-98xvlhkz0

February 28 2021

"They are not leading by example: only three TDs and two senators say they own electric cars, despite the government’s target of having 950,000 of them on Irish roads by 2030.

Some 122 members of the Oireachtas responded to a survey by The Sunday Times last week asking all 218 politicians what kind of car they drive. "

Behind a paywall so can't see the rest of the story.

Maybe time for another survey?

innrain · 14-06-2022 10:13am

After nearly three years Dublin LAs have a strategy ref EV charging points published. They are also looking for suggestions of places where to install chargers

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news-press-releases/dublin-region-local-authorities-deploy-1650-ev-charge-points-2025

At the bottom of the page are the suggestions links for DLR and Fingal. If you live in one of those LAs have you say. If I'll find for the others I'll post it here.

The strategy document is here. 84 pages so didn't read the whole thing so far, although I saw lots of duplication of the LGMA guidance document.

JohnC. · 29-07-2022 8:08am

This scheme has resulted in 33 approvals in 3 councils. Not great, is it?

Louth (20)

Dublin City (9)

Tipperary (4)

https://www.thejournal.ie/public-charge-points-evs-ireland-5827399-Jul2022/

SEAI’s on-street public charge point scheme for Local Authorities

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