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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,076 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well that is an honest assessment. I'd agree - we should develop good public transport systems for urban and suburban areas. And then ban all ownership and use of private vehicles in same urban and suburban areas. Public transport, cycle or walk. Park & ride only for personal travel into these areas from outside.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    I certainly don't believe Ireland should commit economic suicide. Nor should it's people be weighed down by huge personal debts just to suit the green agenda. Most people are trying to pay off their debts, not add to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So you don't think the EU should try and reduce emissions at all?

    I also don't understand how people think we can clean up our act without being inconvenienced a little, our current lifestyles are not sustainable.

    You can call it a green agenda, but the planet and resources are finite, water and air are essential to life, nearly every scientist and study shows that climate change is real and will cause disaster worldwide, food shortages, crop failure etc., we are currently doing our best to destroy everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    My current lifestyle involves working 5/6 days a week in a factory job which can't be done from home. There is no public transport nearby so I must drive. Even if I could cycle to work, in our wet climate, I'm not interested. My wife is in exact same situation. Therefore two cars are required in our house. Two modest electric cars (VW ID3) would be 80000.

    I have 13 years left on my mortgage. To retrofit my home would cost the guts of 60000 euro. That would include a heat pump which has a relatively short life span of around fifteen years. Cost to replace and install a new heat pump then? Another 15000 euro. Solar PV panels also have a maintenance schedule and lifespan which can be quite expensive too. Not too mention the question marks over the health impact of air tight houses which are a necessity for heat pumps to function efficiently.

    The rich will be ok with this. It's us working folk that will be completely screwed over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes, modern political and economic ideologies are ultimately based on the individual taking on the majority of the debts required, this simply wont work, and has already begun to collapse, unfortunately most green orientated parties have not largely accepted this failure just yet, they have gotten caught up in these ideologies also, its simply angering people, and turning people away from what needs to occur...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    As I said above, people like you need your cars, not everyone does. Where I live people drive 200 meters to the shop down the road or drop their kids to school around the corner in their cars. The place is traffic choked and from what I can see most of them don't even need to be driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Do you think the EU should do anything to reduce emissions? Do you think the EU should stop trading with China seen as we are their biggest customer and outsource a lot of our emissions to China?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    china has in fact invested far more than most countries in renewables, yes theyre still running enormous amount of fossil fueled fired plants, but....



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    The EU is a large polluter, we pollute way more per capita than China in the EU and are their biggest trading customer.

    Do you think we the EU should stop trading with them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...so you want to crash our economies, so that china will further accelerate their changeover to renewables, hows that gonna work, as we all effectively have a trade deficit to china?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Do you ever stop to think why are China building more coal plants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    maybe its because their economy has been growing at such a rate, that they need the energy to maintain this rate of growth, i could be wrong though? again, china has invested more than most countries combined in expanding their renewables, slowly winding back their reliance on fossil fuels....



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Great to see the eco commies making excuses for the commies, apple never falls far from the tree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...they should be prevented from doing so, the greens are wrong about nuclear, and unfortunately we may find out this the hard way....



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Global shipping and air transport are significant polluters and emitters. Personally I don't share your world view that we would be better off without them. If it's a choice between my big OLED TV and being able to travel and see the world, go skiing in winter, and climate change, I am more than willing to embrace climate change.

    What you don't get is that the flexibility, freedom and sheer utility of personal transportation transformed the post industrial revolution world and was a significant enabler of the quality and standard of life we enjoy. It's been a very, very good thing.

    While you might personally be able to ride a bike everywhere in all weathers and use public transport and be happy with that limited life, that is not not for everyone and it's not your personal prerogative to dictate that they should copy you. A lot of your life is underpinned by workers and people who need and use personal vehicles. Do you think the construction workers who built whatever you live in got to work on public transport or carried all their stuff on bicycles?

    I actually care a great deal about the environment, but it's in terms of habitat, overfishing of the seas - which has resulted in the rise of shark attacks in litoral waters - deforestation and physical pollution like rubbish and chemical dumping. The trouble with the whole climate change focus is that these far more important issues have been trivialised and get scant attebtion in comparrison, and that is huge tragedy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Nermal


    'Needs' were already fulfilled when we lived in caves.

    For most people, fulfilling 'wants' is what makes life worthwhile, and it requires cheap, storable, abundant energy.

    If it doesn't for you, great. Be happy with that, and stop trying to control the behaviour of others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,305 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    again, yes, the majority of their energy supplies do indeed come from fossil fuels, not just coal, but again, theyre expanding their renewables faster than most western nations, we ve all pretty much started from zero in regards renewables, as most energy supplies globally are from fossil fuels, including our own

    say wha?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You make excuses for the CCP while feigning confusion at the idea that you're making excuses for them 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I just want to understand the statement "they're expanding their renewables faster than most western countries"


    Does this mean:

    2021 renewable energy/total energy - 2020 renewable energy/total energy

    Is greater for china than more than 50% of oecd countries?

    The term "expanding" must be relative to total energy production otherwise it is meaningless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    And this culture of having more and more cheap stuff whenever they want from wherever they want is destroying the planet. We are all guilty of this and it needs to change or the planet is f**ked.

    Surely you are clever enough to realise we can't just keep consuming as much of whatever we want whenever we want without there being problems?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You must have missed the part where I said some people will always need cars for work and those of you who choose to live in one off housing too. Lots of people have a choice however.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    But do you believe those workers should continue to be punished by green policies for needing a car to travel to work? Because the carbon tax regime is hitting them the most right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    It's a tricky one to do it in a fair way I'll give you that, maybe some kind of leeway for certain people would be a good idea? It's not really a green policy either, FG/FF etc are all in favour of carbon taxes, they're not going to go away when the Greens are voted out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Without access to internet, phone, etc I wouldn't be able to partake in society or have a job, a home, and all that basic stuff required to live in this world. So why would I throw it all away? That doesn't mean things shouldn't change. Childish retort from you as usual.

    This cartoon sums up your ridiculous argument.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Your last paragraph is exactly how I feel - habitat loss is the biggest tragedy to this planet. If they waved a magic wand and climate change was ‘fixed’, it wouldn’t matter, we’re still losing everything that is beautiful on this planet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    They're both related though. Look at Ireland, zero natural habitat left, biodiversity in total crisis, the whole island is devoted to animal farming, which is carbon intensive. The likes of Brazil are just catching up with Ireland and Europe by wiping out their ecosystems. The strive for economic growth means destruction of more habitat and extraction of more resources and increased emissions. They go hand in hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    The green policies are a significant factor in the housing crisis. The cost of building a house is far too much compared to value. I know for example with a once off house you're straight away in negative equity before you move in.


    My brother in law got a quote of 90k just for the renewables and insulation upgrade of a very modest sized 1980s house and offered just 18k of a grant off it.


    That's 70k onto the cost of a refurb that would normally cost about 20k for the previous spec materials. Coupled with all the other materials, price increases and supply issues it's pretty grim



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Yes but look where all the focus is - carbon this, tax that. No-one is bothered with stopping the destruction of what we still have right now. The obsession with consuming even more whilst pretending it’s green, whilst taxing people into poverty for nothing, just takes support away from everything else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Politicians are all for taxes, dont care where it comes from. Better still if the sheep clamour for it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So would you be in favour in heavily taxing some products that are destructive to the natural world?



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