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Snugborough Interchange Upgrade

13567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭The Dark Knight


    Have to say, the plans for this Junction really annoys me.
    All this work and tax payers money spent, without a freeflow movement in sight.
    May be some improvements in traffic flow due to more space to que cars, however we're definitely not going to get value for money in this upgrade.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Have to say, the plans for this Junction really annoys me.
    All this work and tax payers money spent, without a freeflow movement in sight.
    May be some improvements in traffic flow due to more space to que cars, however we're definitely not going to get value for money in this upgrade.
    What??
    It's a junction right in the middle of residential areas. It needs to cater for traffic increase (with the extra lanes) but also walking and cycling. Freeflows impede pedestrians and cyclists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭mr potato head


    spacetweek wrote: »
    What??
    It's a junction right in the middle of residential areas. It needs to cater for traffic increase (with the extra lanes) but also walking and cycling. Freeflows impede pedestrians and cyclists.

    Yeah and I think the proposed "upgrade" for the N3 to three lanes will also do nothing to improve the situation, it will only reduce air quality in the area and have a negative long term impact on Blanchardstown village


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭The Dark Knight


    spacetweek wrote: »
    What??
    It's a junction right in the middle of residential areas. It needs to cater for traffic increase (with the extra lanes) but also walking and cycling. Freeflows impede pedestrians and cyclists.

    Not necessarily. You can have partial freeflow, with pedestrian crossings. Just look at the flow from the Blanchardstown road south onto the N3 inbound.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah and I think the proposed "upgrade" for the N3 to three lanes will also do nothing to improve the situation, it will only reduce air quality in the area and have a negative long term impact on Blanchardstown village

    As we head towards the demise of new combustion engined vehicles at the end of the decade, and probably sooner the way manufacturers are going, air quality affected by road traffic will become less and less an issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Not necessarily. You can have partial freeflow, with pedestrian crossings. Just look at the flow from the Blanchardstown road south onto the N3 inbound.
    Such things can be horrible for pedestrians - look at https://goo.gl/maps/oYeXVery4f8eojAF9 - 4 pedestrian crossing lights to go from left to right! That probably takes ages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭The Dark Knight


    daymobrew wrote: »
    Such things can be horrible for pedestrians - look at https://goo.gl/maps/oYeXVery4f8eojAF9 - 4 pedestrian crossing lights to go from left to right! That probably takes ages.

    And wasting millions of euros in upgrading a junction that will probably need to be upgraded again in 20 years time is horrible for tax payers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    As we head towards the demise of new combustion engined vehicles at the end of the decade, and probably sooner the way manufacturers are going, air quality affected by road traffic will become less and less an issue.
    While electric cars eliminate exhaust pipe emissions (or rather move emissions to the generating plant), tyre and brake pad emissions remain and are apparently really bad: https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2020/0918/1166000-tyre-pollution-up-to-1-000-times-worse-than-engines-study-finds/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,526 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That study, or probably just the reporting of it, falls over immediately on astoundingly basic maths problems.

    The headline of 5.8g a kilometre of tyre particulate would indicate that a set of tyres that does 20,000k will have lost 116 kilos of material over that time, 29kg a tyre

    My cars tyres weigh about 9kg each. One tyre cannot possibly emit 29kg of tyre particulate in its lifetime - it has probably lost in the range of a few hundred grams of weight by the time it reaches end of life, considering much of the weight is the steel internal structure.

    If they mean 5.8g including all forms of particulate - brakes (only a few hundred grams of brake pad to wear down over tens of thousands of km), road surface wear etc - I'd still think its massively overstated.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They probably meant milligrams. Wouldn't be unusual for journos to be maths illiterate.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Going back to the actual subject of the thread, it's now June and there's no sign of the actual works beginning, electronic signs say May? They really haven't told those of us living on/just off the road what to expect in terms of disruption.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The works have begun.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    It's a dreadful junction and hopefully these works will make a great improvement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    L1011 wrote: »
    That study, or probably just the reporting of it, falls over immediately on astoundingly basic maths problems.
    You're right. I didn't think about tyre lifetime and the incorrect claims.

    Pollution aside, electric cars do not reduce congestion so there will still be long delays at the junction and, as it will be a long time before all cars are electric, there will still be a lot of pollution in the area.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    There's no way to treat a busy junction like this in such a way that everyone's happy.
    If you expand it to allow for more traffic, it flows better which at least reduces backed-up traffic, which is better for people who live locally.
    But this almost always makes harder to get through for non-motorists.

    In some locations, the above logic wins out, in others, expanding the road brings too many downsides so the area remains congested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    spacetweek wrote: »
    There's no way to treat a busy junction like this in such a way that everyone's happy.
    If you expand it to allow for more traffic, it flows better which at least reduces backed-up traffic, which is better for people who live locally.
    One thing known around the world is: "If you build extra road capacity, extra traffic will arrive to fill it."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    What I'm most annoyed with is that there was only one public consultation. They changed the plans after that but never circulated them to residents and didn't send any communication re works starting and impact on us. Still no closer to understanding the direct impact of two bridges


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭raheny red


    The last man standing really is gonna be swallowed up! The new structure will be right on top of them. The roundabout has been removed and replaced by plastic barriers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭raheny red




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭Phil.x




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Why would there be?

    Its only some working space that being used at the moment. The final arrangement will return that house to its cul-de-sac status with new tree planting and what not. Absolutely no need to have purchased it to be consumed by the scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭raheny red




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    I saw a reply that the tweet was unhelpful as no details of the changes were included, nor are they on the project website.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That's because they don't know what they are yet.

    There's an intensive works programme under way, and they seem to be flying, but there's no way they could tell you what every rearrangement of traffic between now and May is going to be, because a dozen different factors could delay work. If people just generally avoid the area and follow the signs day-to-day if they must go that way, it'll be grand.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Now would be the time to either open the hospital to traffic or give people long term a code or pass or something to get the barrier to open from Waterville



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    That would be awesome!! I'm constantly having to go to town (work) via cappagh at the moment because getting on to the n3 has been so difficult. When we bought in Waterville the hospital was open which made such a difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They can't make the hospital a rat run though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Not sure it would be in the same way it used to be when the road through to the village was open.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    The village wasn't the destination. It was just on the route. Now is no different.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Sometimes. My point was that the lights at the village were a bigger bottleneck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    I can't agree that they don't know what they are at. If there are traffic management changes then someone is telling some guy on the ground where to put the cones. That first someone could relay the same into onto the web site people.

    If they move then cones again then tell them again and update the website. Before Christmas, when the closed the 'fast lane' they had a complete diagram of it. Why not now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Queue now at Junction 6. Thats with the road not open.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Thats one diagram of a new arrangement, on a national route, that is going to remain that way for the duration of the works.

    They won't be drawing diagrams every time they fart around with some cones on the side roads, which will be several times a week between now and May.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    That diagram was for eastbound. I would expect that if they change westbound flow that they would at least write a few words to state that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    It does say that inbound traffic will be unaffected so must be westbound



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭lordleitrim



    New bridge beams over the N3 going up over the course of this week with night time road closures per advice attached.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭timbel


    Anyone know what is going on with this project?

    I haven't seen anyone on-site in ages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    They've been doing a lot of night works lately with lane closures and significant delays around 10.30pm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭timbel


    I hadn’t noticed that. Just seems like the bridge and Blanch centre side of the works has been ready for weeks but nothing happening



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    This was around the roundabout at the bottom of the Waterville side. Stop go halfway across the bridge which had the queue for the slip off the n3 back towards the village exit and the other queues were long too. Got stuck for a good 20 minutes one of the nights.

    They can't open until that roundabout is sorted. It feels like that is a while off yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Ask BAM, the developers, for an update: https://www.snugboroughinterchange.ie/contact-us/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭raheny red


    Is the old cottage beside Ebay/Intreo being demolished? Are they widening that corner as part of the current upgrades or are they separate works altogether?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    You can look at the plans at: https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/proposed-part-viii-snugborough-interchange-upgrade

    From looking at the 'ROAD LAYOUT' document, it looks like it's due to remain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Due for completion Q3 2023 according to an update I received from an elected rep. So at least another 6 months of these works



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Hasn't been too disruptive really. Work is progressing at a decent lick.

    That cottage right now looks like its being underpinned. Seems mental for a derelict structure. Is it going to come back to life as something??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,178 ✭✭✭✭dodzy


    6 more months to finish this FFS ! I'd have knitted a bridge quicker. Over 1.5yrs -an absolute joke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭raheny red


    Any word on when the pedestrian tunnel will reopen? That's been the biggest ball ache.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Will be a while I'd imagine, one of the last things I'd guess.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No, you really wouldn't.

    At least not one with earthworks and engineered retaining walls and diverted underground services and traffic through the site at all times.

    And also built to a price.



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