Male Victims of Domestic Violence

Surely the honesty and transparency is the deciding factor in this case. A man who is open about not wanting kids but continuing with a relationship as long as she consents is a world apart from a woman lying about contraception and deliberately getting pregnant without her partner's knowledge/consent.

You established the association. Men's rights groups = angry men.

Although, I'm curious about this. Feminism was founded, and expanded on, by women who were angry over being discriminated against. So, why should men who are angry be dismissed for that anger, when women angry over discrimination should be listened to?

I'm not even twisting words here. It's pretty basic logic. You've just sought to reinforce a double standard. That it's unreasonable for men to be angry over their position in society...

I've also looked at many of the Men's Rights groups, and have attended a variety of meetings in the past. You're right.. many of those involved are angry. They're angry when their kids are taken away from them, they're angry when divorce settlements favour their female partner, they're angry over claims of abuse/harassment/etc which are not based on facts but associations... There are many examples of men being marginalised or simply badly treated in society, and little interest in addressing the imbalances that occur.

Surely, you would want to support the men who are angry over these imbalances, when they're the ones most likely to have a personal stake (and determination) to bring about change, and a more fair society? After all, feminism wasn't driven by women/people who were absent of anger and outrage over how society was treating them?

It's not your job to be here at all, or to argue against other peoples posts. Not really sure why you felt the need to make such a statement.

Did I say that you shouldn't be sceptical? You asked a question and I provided some information for you to consider. Obviously, you ignored the link considering the speed of your response, so.. why ask the question at all?

Just that you're not engaging in any kind of fair/honest discussion. Grand. That's firmly established now.

haha... what lies?

I didn't "literally assume" anything.. I responded to your own written piece. Just as I haven't propagated any lies. Rather than engage in the discussion, you constantly deflect, or seek to dismiss others viewpoints without any serious effort to counter them.

The sad thing is that I used to respect your posts, but in recent years you've ditched all that to become this.

Pointing to the influence of feminism in society, and being critical of that influence, isn't being anti-feminist, or making this a gender war.

It's about recognising the realities involved. Society, by it's nature, conditions those within it. We've seen decades of feminist led social change, a lot of which was positive, but it was done without any sense of balance being desired.. since feminism is firmly focused on women's needs/desires rather than equality. Ask anyone, and there would be very few people around today who would have anything negative to say about first or even second wave feminism, but ask them about modern feminism, and with a little bit of digging, you'll get a range of negative opinions on the topic.

Passing these issues off as some kind of gender war, or attack on feminism, is part of the overall problem. For male rights to be established as important, we need to be able to criticise and comment on the range of change that feminism has managed... along with the social conditioning that has come from those changes. Without that, there's not going to be any substantial improvement for men in society, because to do so, would remove women from the position of victims in society. To recognise that women can be aggressors, abusers, etc, we need to stop seeing them as victims. It's really that simple. We've known for decades the rates of child abuse, and other forms of abuse that women engage in, but such aspects are generally ignored or deflected so that the focus remains firmly fixed on males as aggressors. As long as that continues, we're not going to see much sympathy or empathy for male related problems, because that would mean that women are no longer the automatic victim of such situations.

That's the real problem here. Social conditioning.. and the embrace of double standards, which allow one gender to be held collectively responsible, and the other gender to be collectively innocent.