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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Pat Kenny banging the "keep the masks on" drum again this morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    He's the chief medical officer, the only way out of that job is retirement, he's likely to be part of the new smaller group in his capacity as CMO



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    “You don’t want to be the last person to die from Covid because you let your guard down” says Pat Kenny just now. He’s an absolute fcuking disgrace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    I thought I imagined that he actually said that! Comparing it to the last soldiers killed in WWI before the Armistice. Idiot.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,641 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    LuckyLloyd was being sarcastic.

    Every country had a group who hated the CMO and threw themselves at the alter of a CMO in other countries, it's pretty funny to watch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    I thought I was the only one who got that......thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Why bother listening or taking any heed of him? The game is up for auld Pat. He’s hanging on to the thread of his old underpants. Masks are going for the foreseeable whether he likes it or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭cannonballTaffyOjones


    Poor guy, I genuinely feel bad for him, but at the same time does he expect the whole world to shield for himself and medically vulnerable people ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1




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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Indeed it was just a piece of cloth.

    Funny that just a piece of cloth inspired a load of bed wetting over a purported "loss of freedom" and other nonsense about ruined lives etc.

    When it was required to wear a mask, I wore one. When it no longer is I won't. I didn't go around like an entitled arse without one when they were required but equally I'll be happy when they are gone. If anyone wants to continue wearing one after the emergency, then they can feel free to do so.

    If there is no longer a public health rationale then it is right that they should go. They shouldn't be retained to address the anxieties of the few. It is the same logic that saw them introduced, that bullshit notions of "liberty" and "freedom" should have prevented their use as a public health measure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭crossman47


    I'm sorry for your trouble but get your facts right. Tony Holohan had no role in sending patients into nursing homes. He has no role in the HSE and, if you read the article you cited, he is not mentioned. Personally, and I know it is not a popular view, I feel our government and NPHET did a good job in guiding us through the pandemic. Mistakes were made. The biggest was lifting restrictions for Christmas 2020. That was welcomed by many on here but turned out to be a disaster that cost many lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    It's a bit of a strange one as the position lacks logic. If the person has been unable to interact with others due to the pandemic, particularly over the last 6 months, then the retention of public health measures wouldn't change that. They would still feel the need to shield.

    The only argument is that it makes these people 'feel' more left out. A small number of people's feelings however are not a good rationale for broad public health measures imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Quags


    ah no its just a point from my side, she survived that.

    Mistakes were made that cost people their lives & while HSE "decided" this they would take their data and advice from NPHET. Me personally I think they did not do a good job as some decisions were weird (€9 meal being the highlight) or when Tony wasn't happy that people socialized outdoors even though ppl had being told that the threat of Covid was less when outdoors. If two things come from this whole Covid thing is the HSE are a disgrace and are wasting money & our government do not care about the general public



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The fixation on the €9 meal and it's misrepresentation has been a real low-light of the pandemic. It shows up the level of understanding, the ability to comprehend something slightly more complex than a basic idea or ignorance that many people have. Then there were those that understand but wilfully misrepresent.

    As has been explained countless times it was a threshold limit that sets apart the so called "wet-pubs" and pub-restaurants. It was implemented so that pubs couldn't start selling plates of tayto and calling themselves restaurants to get around the rules. That's it. That simple. It was a crude measure that was used to allow the more controlled settings such as restaurants to open while keeping less ones, like pubs that just serve drinks and light refreshments closed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Haha, is he still talking about it? 😀

    The rest of the world has moved on, it's practically not being discussed by the general public anymore. It's all Storms/Russia/Cost of living moaning now...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Quags


    Ah yes cause its well know you couldn't catch Covid in a pub that served food but you could in a pub that served just alcohol. Hence why certain rules they made up were just nonsense



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Again I can't tell if it's ignorance or wilful misrepresentation on your part above, but you're missing the point. €9 was arbitrary, but it was an existing bord failte threshold for hospitality, so that's why it was used.

    No, you could catch it in both settings, but you were more likely it was thought to catch it in an uncontrolled setting. It was more about reducing the capacity of the hospitality industry (particularly the closure of the riskiest settings) so that the number of close contacts each individual would have would be suppressed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭User1998


    Whats the difference between tables 2 metres in apart in a pub and tables 2 metres apart in a restaurant?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    The government and Nphet did a decent job but they were completely over reliant on very strict lockdowns that they were never in a position to enforce to the level required. Lockdowns of the general public in Ireland rely heavily on public buy in. It was obvious last March/April/May that people were increasingly ignoring the 5km/intercounty/ meeting in groups elements of the restrictions as time went on that public buy in had dropped in a big way. Any visit to any sizeable public area/Park and this would have been obvious. That's before we talk about private house parties etc.

    The thing about the reopening during Christmas 2020 what was the alternative? I think the restrictions should have been eased even though the amount of easing was a mistake. However restrictions are pointless unless an overwhelming percentage of the population actually obey them. From September 2020 to the end of April 2021 ish we had harsh movement restrictions. Without some sort of easing around Christmas the public buy in would have dropped even faster.

    I'd give Nphet a 6 out of 10. Other notable mistakes was halting large portions of the construction industry in the middle of a housing crisis, their attitude to masks and antigen tests which they were late and reluctant adopters of. Finally their discussions were so leaky they effectively moved from advisors to decision makers. At times they should have just broadcast their meetings live at least that way the government would have found out about their recommendations/decisions at the same time as journalists not after.

    On the positive side they avoided the health system being overwhelmed which was their core objective which they thankfully achieved.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Superficially nothing. However if you even interrogate the idea at any depth public health felt that in a pub setting that with the consumption of alcohol that adherence to the public health measures would be reduced.

    The measure must also be considered in the context of the overall goals of the restrictions. The idea was to reduce the number of contacts that everyone had. While the measures may have seemed arbitrary, the idea was that not all contacts have equal value. It was obvious that industries that were less important to the overall functioning of the country were closed for the longest in order to keep contacts suppressed. IE pubs were closed so schools could open.

    This shouldn't need to be explained to you, this was discussed in depth for months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    There isn't one. The Western world tossed out decades of virology and epidemiology planning to run with China-style lockdowns as soon as they realised they could "get away with it" (Neil Ferguson), and public health officials and governments flew by the seat of their pants the rest of the way. Post-hoc rationale is now being laid over recent history because the bills need paying, the collateral damage is being revealed, the inquiries are coming—and the fallout will not be pretty.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    More likely to catch it in an uncontrolled setting, so they closed the controlled settings and pushed people into uncontrolled settings. Thats NPHET for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭TalleyRand83


    Yeah I wouldn't get too carried away with the announcement like it proves all criticism wrong (setting aside nutty Conspiracy theorists) although maybe he's so amazingly good he can lead up the revolution so sorely needed for the shambles that is the money pit HSE?

    Personally, I think Gov leaders have been slowly developing a spine and told him they'll be taking the lead so he has decided to bow out on "his terms"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    You’re dead right, it was discussed in depth and anybody with even an ounce of sense came to the conclusion that it was absolute nonsense and no amount of mental gymnastics from the likes of you will change that. That was one of the most important things we learned from the whole mess was the amount of people in this country that will believe almost ANYTHING de man on de Telly tells them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    There's loads of people out there terrified cos of the millions that died from COVID

    That's the biggest scam

    And then there's all the COVID window dressing and woke bullsh1t that sprung up during this so-called crisis



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Mental gymnastics? The point of all the restrictions on socialisation was to reduce the number of contacts. There is an argument about the fairness of the measures but the simple fact is the €9 requirement resulted in the closure of half of pubs. This consequently reduced socialisation. And no, not everyone went to house parties instead. Most just didn't go out.

    If we learned anything, is that there are a cohort of people out there that believe that the government is out to get them and that they are incapable understanding policy at any level - no matter how much it's explained to them. What they will take and accept though are glib Facebook posts by people with an agenda. oh they have it right...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I wouldn't call it ' policy '

    That word implies some strategic thinking which governments here don't really do

    They navigated a crisis reasonably competently and followed the other sheep nations



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    You were less likely to be falling about the place off your head if you were forced to buy a €9 meal and be out in 1h45m. Also you were less likely to go on a pub crawl. Sadly you were more likely to go to a house party after the pub, at 11 o clock etc etc

    Back in May 2020 NPHET wanted restaurants to open but the govt pushed ahead with the €9 meal in any pub to appease publicans. In hindsight they might have not delayed the reopening of pubs 3 weeks later (6 weeks, 9 weeks, 12 weeks etc etc) if the govt stuck to the plan



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Judging by these comments by Martin it's likely masks will be here until 28th, but we'll see on Tuesday.




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