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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    So according to this article in the Independent - young people who were vaccinated and then caught Omicron are going to be coerced into taking boosters for a Wuhan strain of the virus with a big publicity campaign starting next Month….after recovering from the recent strain….how does this make sense?

    I don’t agree with getting rid of PCR testing options for people until the EU Covid Cert rules are dropped. Provide ways for people to show they’ve recovered as agreed at EU level.

    “People whose Covid infection was confirmed via antigen testing face issues in getting recovery certs for international travel:


    “The Covid cert was designed at EU level, and only the PCR test is recognised for a recovery cert. Antigen doesn’t cut it. But we can’t change it because the whole operation of Covid certs was agreed originally at EU level.”

    The senior HSE source added to the Irish Independent: “Other countries took the same decision we did on antigens (when their PCR testing systems came under intolerable pressure).

    “Unfortunately it seems they (the people affected) have to wait until they get their booster.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    The real issue here is,yet again,the fortnight lead-in.

    It's a very clear issue.

    End the Mandates NOW.

    It's so simple that even Minister Eamon Ryan was able to grasp the principle earlier in the week...ASAP = NOW.

     

    Minister for the Environment Eamon Ryan has said the requirement for children to wear face masks in schools should be removed immediately and he hopes it can be done “straight away”.

    Instead,our media have,with barefaced cheek,begun a counter campaign for prolonging the agony....

    Thank God for mother nature !

    One can sense the absolute disappointment of the supposed Journalists in the flurry of so-called vox-pop's asking "their" readers to bemoan this new threat to their wellbeing....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/to-resume-living-we-need-the-help-of-others-to-keep-us-safe-readers-on-face-mask-rules-1.4805453

    The real end to this stuff comes only when the Emergency Legislation is repealed,again should be happening TODAY,but instead we hear very little about this stuff being left silently ticking away,awaiting the next terrified Minister's dip into it's Total Power folder.

    In the meantime,I am going outside to tie my one remaining grubby piece of elastic & cloth to my Car Radio aerial,in the manner of a Jolly Roger....I may be quite sometime....😉


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭walus


    That is another coercive tactic to push more vaccines. This time however onto those who after having recovered have a better immunity than any vaccine can give. There is no medical need for this. Non-vaccinated recovered, vaccinated and recovered, and recovered and then vaccinated have the same level of protection. Immunity obtained through the natural infection still rocks. Even, or maybe especially, in the mRNA era.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The real issue here is,yet again,the fortnight lead-in.

    It's not a fortnight, it's a week on Monday and there is a process to follow and a Cabinet meeting to accept the advice. As irritating as they are they are one of the least onerous things we've had to put with. Most people can put up with another week of them and for those who can't there shouldn't be too much blowback in the likes of retail if they ditch them early.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    The "Media" would call us the "Great Unwashed"....

    The mass or multitude of ordinary people.

    "history shows that the great unwashed will only take so much pain before they revolt"

    Nice bit from the Oxford Languages dictionary 😁


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Interesting to see people scurrying about in the midst of a CODE RED ! storm,desperately attempting to keep the cloth attached to their heads.......100+KPH winds will attend to Covid perfectly well without the assistance of the bitta cloth....😷


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Dr Holohan is already on record calling for a new "Slimer,more focused" permanent NPHET to be established in order to boost our readiness for future pandemicals (or strategic panic requirements)

    Be under no illusion that the demise of THIS NPHET is more of an intermission to allow for some R & R for all concerned....



    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Ah, Neil Ferguson the modelling genius, whose work in wrongly guessing huge case numbers largely encouraged countries to do as they did. I'd cut them slack in the first lockdown, it was very much a pause to process a new pathogen. Sure, they were overused in the two years but I am disappointed not to see your own brilliant strategy. Bear in mind we've seen both ends of the spectrum from the loose Swedish approach to the Antipodean border closures. I tend to leave China out of this because they will do whatever they want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Does Pat not realize that people WILL die from Covid anyway,mask,hazmat,vaccine,booster or not ?

    Everyone of us,at some point has to face our own mortality ...it's an absolute.

    Is Pat Kenny suggesting that our mortality can,on a large scale be thwarted by wearing masks of any sort...we will all die,but the only outcome of this Media Rearguard action is to ensure that some will now die of FEAR itself ! 😲

    This two-week lead in is little more than a death-by-a-thousand articles performance,designed to mobilise some form of resistance campaign to maintain the mandate at all costs.

    In reality all it is doing is to smoke out the crazies to form an unstable alliance with the fearful and manipulate them into some form of force to be reckoned with.

    This is actually the most important period of the entire production,as it's outcome will determine how Freedom is defined in future life !

    End it Now !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Agree, one would have to ask what is the objective?

    These people have recovered from Covid, they’re not at risk for many months of another Covid infection. The booster doesn’t protect against current strains and indeed I don’t see any data or studies showing the necessity for a booster of the Wuhan strain following a primary vaccination course and subsequent recovery from Omicron. Avoidance of binning vaccines?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Mr Musician posted.....

    The only argument is that it makes these people 'feel' more left out. A small number of people's feelings however are not a good rationale for broad public health measures imo.

    The rationale,as far as I can make out,is to vastly increase the numbers of those who can be classified as "Vulnerable".

    The past two years has seen swathes of society,who would have fared well using their own intellect and common sense now convinced they are a new species "The Vulnerable",who now must be looked after by a new Admistrative Entity,which will be along soon.

    As one's mother might have said..."Be careful now and Mind Yourself"


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭walus


    The write-off is one thing for sure. Another, and I know that this could sound very CT-esque, is that experiment is not finished. The aim may be to go through the full course of vaccines to gather the data and information on the mRNA. This may be very useful to improve the technology and step up the level of its maturity, so that when the next pandemic comes along …

    Those people who had their infection confirmed by an antigen test and who are struggling now to receive their recovery certs should be offered a test for presence of anti-bodies, and have their infection confirmed that way. But no, coercion has been and continues to be the way the ruling elites manage the plebs.

    Post edited by walus on

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,860 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    That's nonsense to be honest. They have demonstrated that they can move within 24 hours (or less!) if they want to in the past. There's no reason for this to drag on at all, and certainly not beyond Tuesday next when the cabinet meets.

    This isn't giving businesses and people time to put new measures in place. This is to simply remove the legal requirement for masks.

    I think they've bowed to the likes of Pat Kenny and his listeners, and the nervous types on Twitter to drag it on to the latest point possible without having to extend/renew the existing legislation.

    Someone asked why would you listen to the likes of Pat Kenny if he bothers you - because like him or not, he and his listeners are part of a demographic that FF/FG very much want to appeal to come election time.

    All this is is more appeasing of those who still think it's March 2020 and who think their (in most cases) unwarranted anxieties are justification enough to pressure the decision makers into yet another unnecessary delay in returning to normality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    I don't need to have a brilliant strategy as a citizen of this country or any other in order to criticise authoritarian measures taken on the back of provably inept modelling. That's not how any of this works.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,345 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    It's great to now sit down and rethink all the **** stupidy of our nation response to this and this bloody fourm. I'm guilty of been stupid in some of my comments but tbh it was a mentality beat into us by our leaders and glorious media who have every chance wanted to instil fear



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,538 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Pat Kenny is an old fella, married, has kids, great career, etc.

    Essentially he has lived a great life.

    Restrictions really don't make much of a difference to him at this stage. He isn't out there trying to build a career, travel, relationships, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,777 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    No, it wasn't a mentality beaten into you, it was you spouting doom gloom and making up scenarios then trying to blame NPHET and the evil Dr Tony.


    Follow your own advice and take personal responsibility.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭walus


    Of course, this whole modelling **** that has been going on for the last 2 years lacked not only accuracy (of course), but also data on probability factors of various scenarios actually occurring. Sure 200k dead in Ireland was a possibility and someone modelling that would not be wrong. What is wrong however is predicting such numbers without calculating the probability of that happening. So what that 200k could die if the probability of that happening is lower than RTE actually providing objective and unbiased coverage of pandemic (or something equally unlikely to happen i.e. me turning into diamond by lunchtime tomorrow - possible but extremely unlikely to occur that fast).

    additionally a thorough analysis of cost associated with a strategy of dealing and responding to each scenario should also be conducted and that being in monetary, health and social terms. But hey what do I know. I’m not the ruling elite.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    If you want to live you don't want masks

    Not sure how all these decisions were arrived at MM and Tony holohan don't strike me as the progressive type probably seen the writing on the wall with the UK



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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,345 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Yep and do you not agree some of that was brought on by broken promises by our leaders



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,777 ✭✭✭hynesie08




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I agree. The extreme and sudden chopping and changing in rules, the whole decree system, the constant reversals of plans to lift lockdown were anxiety-inducing and a poor way of handling things.

    Especially since all the measures were/are of doubtful use anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭walus


    You have just described a typical profile of those who lobbied for the zero covid, lockdown, flatten the curve etc. strategy. Those guys actually are coming out of this better and wealthier (their properties are worth more now than before the pandemic).

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Croohur1


    Why did you use the 200k number if it was irrelevant? Just curious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    It is very typical of the pandemic response, you must admit.

    We all know the masks are useless against Omicron.

    We all know that NPHET have said they can go.

    We all know that government are going to let them go.

    But lets all wait another couple of weeks anyway, because thats just how things work around here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    Have my new t-shirts printed😀



    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    He probably meant 120,000 ?

    Apologies for the length,but it's important to be fair to the metaphorical Professor...

    “The best metaphor I can think of is the Spanish Flu mixed up with the Irish Civil War which was 100 years ago mixed up with the 1929 stock market crash — altogether at the same time,” he said.

    “The worst case scenario I said before was a 20 per cent attack rate on the population and that 20 per cent of five million is one million people with a two per cent mortality.

    “I was quoted saying 20,000 deaths potentially at that time. That was the worst-case scenario and now unfortunately we’ve ratcheted up.

    “Things are actually worse now than they were when we look at what happened in Italy and China and other countries.

    “Our best case scenario we’ve passed. So our best case scenario was that it would look like a regular flu.

    "My median scenario is that we’d have a 20 per cent attack rate and 20,000 deaths.

    “We normally have 30,000 deaths in a year in this country so that’s almost two thirds of the year’s deaths all in one epidemic.

    “Worst case scenario is potentially up to an 80 per cent attack rate — that’s four million and again the two per cent death rate which could even be three or four per cent because a lot of the people in China haven’t recovered yet.

    “So it could be two or three per cent of those four million people will die — that’s 80,000 to 120,000 deaths.”

    It's important also to review these things,in order to allow everybody,even professionals to...reflect ?....

    Total Deaths: 6373

    Total Confirmed: 6079

    Total with underlying conditions : 5270

    Relevance ?....I dunno...suppose it's up to yourself really ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Lads, one weeks and we are fully back to normal.

    Let's just enjoy and ignore the ones trying to drag it out when longer or stir the preverbial ****.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,373 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    I've been done with the masks for weeks now anyway



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