Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

The Chinese might get a few places that won't be taken by EU students but in reality it's nonsense just like every other Brexit "win/bonus" article Salon posts

They also believed they were in such a position of power over the EU that ending freedom of movement would only happen one way and they could continue unimpeded to the Costas

Think we're in a different (more cynical and depressing) world now to that "golden era" that Conservative party used to claim was dawning as regards UK relations with China. The only thing UK universities will get out of taking on loads more "sophisticated and intelligent" Chinese students is future headaches and pain. They might get the money short term (and maybe that is all that matters!) but it won't be worth it IMO as I believe some have found out.

They'll be accepting risk that anything important such students contribute to science and the economy in the UK or indeed anything useful they can get their paws on if they are phds etc. doing research in a cutting edge area will likely be obtained free of charge by the CCP + funnelled to Chinese companies and their military industrial complex if it is of economic benefit and/or has some military application.

Even avoiding that risk, they make a major revenue source (foreign student fees) very dependent on the whims of the Chinese govt. while UK/China relations seem to be on a downward spiral.

The wages angle is a mad one in general. Wages are going up - supply and demand. Now if there's not enough workers and the UK grant visas for those roles, then supply increases which will put pressure on wages again.

I saw Sammy Wilson looking like a duck in thunder this evening...I think he might be enjoying some Brexit benefits of his own.

I don't understand how you can rationalise away or ignore the huge holes in your argument though.

Immigration: Illegal immigration continues unchecked. Legal immigration is down, emigration is up. Brain drain. Labour shortage.

Rapid Rebound: Followed worst decline in 300 years. There is not a single economic indicator (don't argue with %, argue with real numbers) that shows Britain is in any way better off as a direct result of Brexit. Maybe better off in some respect, but not related to Brexit, or in spite of Brexit.

Cost free TCA: Many, many costs, red tape, customs check, bureaucracy, NIP, etc etc etc.

Also, to counter the usual argument of "well no one though the benefits would happen overnight", no one though there would be so much friction and uncertainty, with so many negatives. I get that the 2016 pro-Brexit promotion was as accurate as Y2K or the 2012 end of the world, but I can't understand how anyone in 2022 can say Brexit was a good idea, unless they have personally benefitted in some way.

Just to clarify, I'm comparing the hysteria and nonsense comments on Y2K, power stations would turn off, planes falling out of the sky etc, to the nonsense statements that Brexit was sold on, we hold all the cards, easiest deal in history, no downsides at all...

The wealth disparity is very unlikely to narrow considering the whole brexit project was pushed by the wealthy elite figures like Crispin Odey who stood to gain a ton of money from Brexit happening and then being as hard as possible. And then dont forget you have figures like Mogg actually in Government on one hand pushing for brexit while on the other hand moving his businesses and money out of the country along with doing similar market bets as Odey to make a ton off the negative impacts. There is no way under a Torey government the wealth disparity will do anything but get larger and then if even Labour get in they will still be outside the EU so any progressive moves made can just be undone by the next Torey government with a pen stroke which was the core idiocy of Corbyns anti EU brexit fence sitting imo.

I wouldnt say he is unbiased when his whole starting statement blames the EU for all problems surrounding the negotiations. He straight up lies about the EU demanding a 2 year maximum leaving period and thinks the EU where wasting everyones time by having the cheek to treat NI as important.

He claims that immigration was not ever talked about in the 2017 and 2019 elections but thats utter b@lls. Both elections were totally centred around "getting Brexit done" and the FOM policies of the major parties was a huge point of discussion.

Disparity in the UK has absolutely nothing got to do with being in our out and the UK could always have tackled this but dont want to and nothing suggests the gap will close any time soon.

He also doesa lot of blaming of people who were not to blame. He throws out the usual its Labours fault the Tories made the decisions they made and throws in a little slide show also blaming Starmer, Sturgeon and the Lib Dems.

There is a lot of good stuff in the lecture but any chance to give his opinion or slant on things shows his biased position on Brexit.

you might well be right... but so far the pound has become stronger , which i dont understand ..and inflation in uk is at eu average level so right now it is a vaccuum for the uk lorry driver.ie a 2021 and 2022 brexit benefit and i guess what you will see is that lorry drivers salaries for instance in germany will go down as there will be more easter european drivers. that might be good for the german ecconomy but not good for working standards of lorry drivers, which quite frankly speaking are super tough.

Basically,as I understand it there was a unionist anti NIP rally in Markethill where Sammy got heckled by the crowd.....he wasn't let speak, crowd accused DUP of botching Brexit process (rightly so imo - instead of losing the region business they could have worked towards making it prosperous and essentially have the best of both worlds, although in fairness Brexit England was never going to let that happen).....

Jim Mc Allister had to step in to carry on, there was a really quite beautiful shot of a bemused stunned looking Sammy Wilson standing beside a car looking for all the world like a lad that just had the souffle collapse on him...

I know it's nothing to be too proud of but I found it immensely satisfying that at least some of the purely ideological decisions made by the DUP on behalf of people they seem to have screwed are coming back to bite them, sort of like an oven ready brexit chicken coming home to roost....it would be funny if it wasn't so potentially serious but its nice to see arrogance/hubris/zealotry exposed for what it is or at least some of its main proponents with egg on their face and people that deserve the blame get it....gives me hope that the ERG etc might eventually be turned on when people over there realise that shooting yourself in the foot is never a great idea.

He forgot the biggest rule imo.....try not to mess with people's bottom line.

He certainly wasn't a dogmatic ardent Brexiter but for someone who was representing a non partisan think tank I thought he was a bit opinionated.

There is certainly nothing he said that should be seen as a positive for Brexit.