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U.S. imperialism chitchat corner.

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh, I know what happened with Suez.. but I pointed out freedom fries, so I guess you don't remember the French being bitched on by the US over their criticism relating to Iraq? There have been plenty of other times that those countries or the EU as a group have resisted US efforts to exercise control.

    But grand.. I get the impression that you're not really interested in discussing this, and just want to deflect each time you meet resistance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,758 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    "Freedom fries" is a public distortion of reality. At the state level France never challenged the US over Iraq. A few public statements but in private they were never going to seriously challenge that invasion.

    Not like Suez where both France and the UK thought they still had empire weight to throw around despite the United States warning them publicly like never before that if they did this it will be for the last time. And it was.

    They were finished as meaningful powers from that moment and ever since have more or less towed the line.

    In fairness to France, at least publicly, they are more contrarian then the UK but not by much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    That's the thing though Russia, China the middle East and Africa are all well aware of what the US are up to.

    People say Russia, China, Iran and everyone else not part of the west are all just brainwashed and can't see how bad their government, intelligence services and their countries in general are. The thing is though those countries think the exact same thing about us. It's very hard to decipher what's really going on in the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    So are you going to explain your remarkable claims then? Please explain to the rest of us here what exactly the US are doing in the middle East and Africa that we should be grateful for? How has the Iraq invasion or the destruction of Libya or how has the worst humanitarian situation in the world in Yemen benefitted me and the people of Ireland? It simply sounds to me you are just completely deluded and brainwashed from American propaganda unless you can explain otherwise.

    Please explain I'm genuinely interested to know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,758 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The Yemen situation is a policy of Saudi Arabia.

    You seem to overlook how and on what conditions the United States secured the oil from Saudi Arabia when Roosevelt met with the Saudi King on the Suez after WW2.

    The arrangement was simple. "You get the oil, we get our faith and you don't interfere". Until the first Iraq war of course when the Saudi's were terrified of invasion and requested assistance but that's nether here nor there.

    That was the deal then, it's the deal today.

    It's for Saudi Arabia to run it's country as it sees fit.

    You can't complain about US interference on the one hand and then complain about the lack of interference on the other.

    Which is it?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When’s the last time the US were imperialistic? Aren’t their military bases around the world by invitation? Also they seem to have far fewer colonies and outside territories than your standard ‘imperialistic’ nations.

    The petro-dollar would be the example that comes to my mind that guarantees their hegemony.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    What lack of interference am I complaining about? You didn't answer the question I asked at all. You claimed the people of Ireland should be thankful to the US for their endeavours in the Middle East, I'm not thankful one bit for the invasion of Iraq or the destruction of Libya in Africa.

    The US supported the Saudi led coalition in Yemen, under first the Obama and then the Trump administration, the United States was Saudi Arabia’s partner in this horrific war. Biden announced last February the US was ending it's support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen, six years into the conflict that has killed around 230,000 people and triggered the world’s worst humanitarian crisis, although they haven't stopped it's all just rhetoric to save face and distance themselves from the worst humanitarian situation in the world.

    You never answered the question why should I or the people of Ireland be thankful for all of this like you claimed we should be? You are absolutely deluded from American propaganda and Hollywood movies. This isn't a GI JOE movie this is real life that is destroying people's lives on a scale far beyond anything your worst enemies Putin or Xi Jinping are doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I think the OP was referring to imperialistic by proxy rather than in the old fashioned 1800s sense of the word, by the way who invited them into Iraq?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,758 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    What would you like the US to do? It's a policy of Saudi Arabia in Yemen, not the United States.

    So, what would you like them to do?

    You say correctly the Saudi's do terrible things in Yemen. So presumably you support some sort of interference, right?

    So why is it ok to interfere in Saudi business because they do terrible things, but not in Iraq given the terrible things Saddam had done to his own people?

    You either want interference or you don't.

    You are trying to have it both ways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    They should not be supporting the coalition for one, I don't think you understand that they are allies with Saudi Arabia in Yemen which has fuelled the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. You don't seem to even be aware of this judging by your previous posts so here's an article to fill you in

    Under first the Obama and then the Trump administration, the United States was Saudi Arabia’s partner in this horrific war. The war in Yemen is a war that the United States has supported and remains deeply involved in. They may not be able to stop the situation they helped create. The US began providing logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry to the Saudi Arabia-led coalition in Yemen in March 2015.

    Similar to the Russians in Donbas the Americans are not directly involved in the war in Yemen but they are providing them with support. The situation in Donbas is a picnic party compared to what's going on in Yemen, yet you are quick to condemn Russia for supporting rebels in Donbas but you cannot bring yourself to condemn US support for the Saudi led coalition which has fuelled the worst humanitarian crisis in the world.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,758 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Again I ask you what would you like the US to do?

    You are speaking about the crisis in Yemen. The US does not actively support the situation in Yemen.

    What do you want them to do about it?

    You have tied yourself in knots now because if you say you want them to do nothing - then do you really care?

    If you say they should interfere that makes you a hypocrite in relation to Iraq.

    So you either don't really care or you're a hypocrite, right? You want interference but you don't want interference.

    Can you not see how these things a lot more complex than portrayed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I have not tied myself in knots, you're not making any sense. Biden said last year the US is going to stop supporting the Saudi led coalition but this was just words it has not happened. A Saudi-led and US-backed coalition intervened in Yemen in 2015. I was not asking them to do anything about it I was simply stating the destruction the USA has caused around the world citing Iraq, Libya, Yemen and others, and I was asking you how they are doing this for the freedom of Ireland like you claimed?

    I feel like I'm talking to a bot, you're not acknowledging anything I said and are repeating the same nonsense over and over. If you believe the USA have nothing to do with the war in Yemen you must also believe the Russians have nothing to do with the war in Donbas? As I said before The US began providing logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry to the Saudi Arabia-led coalition in Yemen in March 2015, yet you still say they have never actively supported the situation in Yemen.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,758 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You won't answer the question.

    What do you want the US to do about it?

    You want them to interfere? Smack the Saudis around a bit? Bang a fist on a table in front of the King?

    You don't want them to interfere? Then it just goes on.

    Do you not see how each option makes your arguments look empty and facile?

    This is what happens with simplistic opinions on complex situations. No solutions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Brilliant. If the other thread is anything to go by, this is the perfect thread to prattle on at length about the history of Russian imperialism, expansionism and warmongering.

    Where shall we start? Perhaps the fact that Outer Manchuria (modern day Vladivostok and Primorsky Krai and environs) was stolen from China via unequal treaty under the barrell of a gun.

    And that's just an appetiser. Plenty more Russian imperialism to drone on about, and if the Putin boyscouts club are to be consistent with the other thread, it's all 100 percent on-topic. Who knows братья, you might just learn something in here.

    *tounge firmly in cheek*



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    You're not making any sense, what do I want them to do about it? A Saudi-led and US-backed coalition intervened in Yemen in 2015.

    Well for a start I would have not wanted them to have backed the coalition and not provided the Saudis with logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry for the Saudis to go and ruthlessly bomb thousands of innocent men, women and children helping the Saudis cause the worst humanitarian situation in the world. Does that answer your question? Apparently the US has stopped supporting the Saudi led coalition less than a year ago but this is just rhetoric, they are still providing them with weapons and intelligence, you are failing to understand that the US have supported the war in Yemen, they were partners with Saudi Arabia in this war up until last year.

    I don't think you understand or have any clue what has been going on in Yemen for the last several years, you have still not answered my question how have US endeavours in the Middle East fought for the freedom of the people of Ireland like you claimed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    How about you address Russia's history of imperialism and the theft of Outer Manchuria from China?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,758 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You won't answer the question because it makes you look ridiculous.

    I'm not wasting my time. I have my answer. You're a hypocrite.

    Good night to you sir.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Your question: what do you want the US to do about it?

    My answer copied and pasted: I want them to have not backed the Saudi coalition and not provided the Saudis with logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry for the Saudis to go and ruthlessly bomb thousands of innocent men, women and children helping the Saudis cause the worst humanitarian situation in the world, I want them to stop providing weapons and intelligence to Saudi Arabia in support of their war in Yemen.

    The US began providing logistical and intelligence support as well as billions of dollars worth of weaponry to the Saudi Arabia-led coalition in Yemen in March 2015, they were partners with Saudi Arabia in this war. If you meant what would I want the USA to do about it if they weren't part of the war then I'd want them to treat the Yemeni situation the same way they are treating the Ukrainian one.

    As anyone can see I've answered his question about 5 times, he's not making any sense, I think he's just trying to spam the thread so people can't see his previous post claiming that the people of Ireland should be grateful for US endeavours in the middle East as they have been fighting for out freedom.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    This is great, now we can discuss America's interference in Eastern Europe on two threads! 😆

    Nice try OP.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The interesting thing is that any time anyone seeks to refer to American behaviour in that other thread, the poster is told that it's a thread about Russia.. not the US. This thread, however, is about the US, and now some posters want to deflect away from the US to consider Russia or China.

    Hilarious.

    Out of curiosity, is there anywhere else, that posters on boards should be discussing/criticising the US? (without it being pointed instead at China/Russia)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I don't think you're picking up the sarcasm.

    The other thread is absolutely polluted with whataboutery and off-topic b*llocks about the US.

    The thread title of the other one is Russia - and there's hundreds of years of the grand tradition of Russian expansionism, warmongering on the borders of Europe, the Great game in Central Asia, Far East land theft and Soviet global interference to contextualise what's going on with the current crisis.

    Russia has an imperial and expansionist tradtion all on of its own that has nothing to do with the US and never will, yet we have Galaxy brains in the other thread who have never picked up a history book in the other thread prattling on about Yemen.

    This might surprise people that haven't been paying attention, but bar a few weeks Russia has been at war the entire time since the Society Union collapsed. Conflicts in Moldova, the Caucuses, Georgia, Tajikistan, Ukraine, Syria and undeclared mercenary ops in Africa.

    I welcome this thread, the Putinbots can w*nk each other silly talking about Chile in the 1960s or whatever. This thread has been set up as a little sandbox to discuss their precious NArraTIve. Hope they enjoy it.

    Post edited by Yurt2 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think you're picking up the sarcasm.

    Probably. TBH I've stopped trying to detect it on boards these days.

    The other thread is absolutely polluted with whataboutery and off-topic b*llocks about the US.

    Of course it is. The thread relates to international politics/diplomacy, and the major powers in the world. To maintain perspective in arguing the behaviour of one nation, it's relevant to refer to how their polices have connected or influenced other nations. That's particularly true with countries like Russia or the US whose foreign policies have affected so much, and China to a lesser degree, with regards to Asia and Africa.

    However, I can remember raising relevant comparisons between Russia/American actions, and being told that it was a thread about Russia, not the US. There's quite a few very pro-American posters on boards, who will shout down anything negative said about their hero.

    I welcome this thread, the Putinbots can w*nk each other silly talking about Chile in the 1960s or whatever.

    You can be critical of American foreign policy without being a Putinbot. The US has been the worlds primary superpower since the fall of European Imperialism. There's a lot more to consider, in terms to what they've done abroad, than their South American adventures.

    The simple truth is that the US has been more active militarily than either Russia or China for decades, and many of those interventions were done with dubious intentions, or results. It's valid to draw comparisons between Russian brutality and the US acceptance of collateral damage within their operational theatres. Just as it's valid to consider the propaganda all Major nations have been putting out for decades to promote themselves and the positive sides of their ideological stances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Well and dandy in that case. This thread seems perfect to discuss Russian Imperialism and attempts to dominate it's neighbours through coercion, military action and invasion.

    It's all fair game apparently, and you may have noticed that we're on the brink of a war in Europe of a scale we haven't seen in many decades, directed by a classic Russia expansionist in the Kremlin.

    We have two choices: we could actually talk about how this is worthy of condemnation and should be opposed with every penny of political capital, or we could point across the Atlantic ocean and prattle on about the USA in South America in the 60s or Iraq 20 years ago.

    Wake up. This isn't about supporting countries like football teams. We're on the edge of a conflict that could change the European peace and economy for the next few decades. Many people will die if this goes ahead and Europe will not be changed got the better.

    People prattling on about another country at this time are brain-dead. This conflict begins in Moscow and if you hate war, hate conflict and hate imperialism, point the finger where it should be pointed: due-East at Moscow.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well and dandy in that case. This thread seems perfect to discuss Russian Imperialism and attempts to dominate it's neighbours through coercion, military action and invasion.

    There is already a thread on Russia. Not going to go around in circles on this. The Russia thread generally shoots down any real discussion about American foreign policy. So, it makes sense to have a thread that is primarily aimed at the US.

    It's all fair game apparently, and you may have noticed that we're on the brink of a war in Europe of a scale we haven't seen in many decades, directed by a classic Russia expansionist in the Kremlin.

    I've noticed that there is likely to be a war in Eastern Europe, over a country that has never really been involved with Central/Western Europe.

    We have two choices: we could actually talk about how this is worthy of condemnation and should be opposed with every penny of political capital, or we could point across the Atlantic ocean and prattle on about the USA in South America in the 60s or Iraq 20 years ago.

    You already have a Russia thread to talk about Russian aggression in Ukraine, and everything that goes along with it. This being a thread about the US. Don't want to talk about the US, avoid the thread. Want to talk about Russian aggression? Jump into the Russia thread.

    Come on. The logic here isn't difficult.

    Wake up. This isn't about supporting countries like football teams. We're on the edge of a conflict that could change the European peace and economy for the next few decades. Many people will die if this goes ahead and Europe will not be changed got the better.

    Is there anything in my posts where I have sought to support any particular nation, like a football team? No? Yeah.. you're projecting an argument, so that you can argue against yourself.

    People prattling on about another country at this time are brain-dead. This conflict begins in Moscow and if you hate war, hate conflict and hate imperialism, point the finger where it should be pointed: due-East at Moscow.

    You're under no obligation to be involved in this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    If there's another thread on Russia, why is it infested with Putinbots talking about everything but Russia? They're welcome to keep their off-topic bilge to this thread.

    This thread is set up as a tounge in cheek joke.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If they are welcome to keep their off-topic bilge to this thread, why are you trying to stop them from doing so?

    It makes little sense to me. Just point them to this thread, and leave them to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    That's precisely my point, they have a nice little quarantined thread here where they can talk until to cows come home about American malfeasances throughout the years.

    You'll probably find this thread wont be terribly active though, because they're not really all that interested in the thread topic the OP helpfully provided for them, they're more interested in diversionary posting in the other thread trying to pull it into the mud to give breathing space for Putinist disinformation during the current crisis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    You should have been reading more of my posts Yurt! 😀

    I've been talking about both Russia AND the US in the Russia thread.

    That's the best approach really, because it's impossible to separate the US from the conflict in Ukraine. It would be completely illogical to ignore America's influence in that whole crisis.

    But, yes I agree with you, nobody should be talking about just the USofA in a thread about Russia. Quite right. 👍️

    btw, I completely disagree with you that talking about the US is automatically a deflection tactic. That is highly presumptuous on certain people's behalf. You could perhaps even call it conspiratorial in nature. (but I won't go that far)

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Anyway the point is the USA has caused far more destruction and terror around the world than Russia has in the last 20 years, despite the consensus over the last few years that Putin is the bad guy this is not believed in many parts of Africa, the Middle East, China, Russia etc

    Whether that's directly through their illegal invasion of Iraq, their destruction of Libya or through being a partner with Saudi Arabia in their war in Yemen that has caused the worst humanitarian crisis in the world.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    There's the rub, you're trying to implicate the US in Russia's behaviour, the military intimidation and dismemberment of Ukraine. It's weasely and slippery and the US is actually tangental to the conflict and how the conflict evolved. You're an apologist for imperialism and hilariously trying to set yourself up as as an anti-imperialsit.

    This crisis is conceived and executed from the Kremlin. You want to invent a parallel universe where the US is responsible for everything, and poor little set-upon Vladimir on his yacht was made poison political opponents and be in a state of constant war with neighbours trying to yet out of Moscow's yoke because of nameless CIA men in Langley. It's a juvenile position that doesn't deserve be taken seriously.

    Ukraine isn't even a NATO applicant country. And you know well that the current cycle started all the way back in 2013 when Russia spat the dummy when Ukraine were moving closer to the EU. That's f*ckall to do with the US, and everything to do with Russia's trauma at being a denuded economic influence in the world via mismanagement, militarism and corruption.

    People would respect you more if you were honest about your position, but you're not, so you'll get very little respect and plenty of mockery.

    You either actually believe the stuff you're posting, in which case you're a rube and an easy mark for Russian disinformation campaigns. Or you know it's bullsh*t, in which case you're p*ssing down everyone's leg and telling them it's raining.

    Either way, you're way off piste with this conspiratorial nonsense. I note you've backpeddled significantly from the 'the invasion will never happen' stance as well.

    Have the courage of your convictions. That's all that's asked of you.



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