Sacked doctor sues former employer for refusing to call trans-woman "she"

How can you claim to be something you can't define?

I can claim I’m a man without being able to define the term? It doesn’t make any difference to me what 99% of the planet thinks, any more than I would think 99% of the planet cares what I think either.

What you seem to be asking for is for anyone to prove it. Biology doesn’t and won’t tell you anything about anyone, because it doesn’t have that capacity, it’s use is in observation and classification, not definition.

I don’t have to have studied biology to know a woman when I see one, nobody does. I could distinguish between men and women and children pretty much from birth without any knowledge of human physiology. Sometimes I get it wrong. I’m not being literal when I refer to a group of girls as lads, they know what I mean without any of us having to consult Collins Gem.

Being unable to define a term objectively isn’t the insurmountable social obstacle you appear to want to make it out to be.

I’m not required to use any terms to distinguish between men and women, it’s a cognitive function of the brain rather than anything which is hard-wired or limited to humans specifically. But I get what you mean at least, it’s just one of those things if you’re striving for accuracy, y’know?

The definition you’re referring to isn’t new either, might be new to you, but I’m familiar with how other people choose to define terms according to their own standards based upon their perception. I can’t honestly say I was ever so interested in nailing it down to any particular characteristics like you do that I wanted to conduct a physical examination of anyones reproductive organs before I determined how I would interact with them.

It was entirely based upon my own perception, same as the determination made at birth that anyone is classified as being of either one sex or the other - sometimes the medical profession get it wrong too, and then sometimes they seek to alleviate their cognitive dissonance by performing unnecessary surgery to have humans conform to their standards of what a human of one sex or the other should look like. This determination isn’t based upon biology, it’s based upon cultural and social beliefs - their own personal opinions. I’ll bet you can see now why the GMC doesn’t permit doctors to allow their personal beliefs to influence their practice of medicine.

I understand why definitions matter alright, and I understand why some people get hung up on them. I don’t particularly care to be honest however anyone chooses to define either themselves or something else. I do care when they expect that their definition should be universally applied and everyone should adhere to their standards. That’s an attempt to limit how people express themselves, not something I would ever support in any case, whether the conversation was about women, men, children, mammals, etc, you get the idea 😁

It’s not because I’m a man that I don’t care how anyone else chooses to define themselves or anything else. It’s because other people’s choices for themselves has no impact on me personally. Other people’s decisions for themselves has no impact on you personally either, and I don’t need to suggest you check your privilege or anything else. I’m sure you’re acutely more aware of your own personal circumstances than I am.

You can certainly choose to care about circumstances whichever way you choose to portray them in order to make out that women are the victims of some oppressive new standard which benefits men, and that’s been an ongoing argument within Feminism for as long as Feminism has existed, also an ideology which I can’t bring myself to care about tbh. The points you raise as being specifically challenging to women aren’t actually going to have any impact on the vast majority of women, or men for that matter. They will have the greatest impact on people who were excluded from equal participation in society on the basis of their gender identity - they now enjoy the same privileges in law at least as everyone else in society already enjoys.

You’d have a point if the privileges which women enjoy were being taken from them, but that hasn’t happened. Your argument is no different than the same arguments which were made to limit women’s equal participation in society - that their equal participation in society would be to the detriment of men. It’s a specious argument at best, which ignores the reality that people who are transgender are entitled to participate as equals in society and to be protected from unlawful discrimination in employment, housing, healthcare, education and indeed sports.

The idea that you can ignore the example in the opening post of the man who claims he was the victim of unlawful discrimination because of his religious beliefs which he claims compel him to refer to anyone in a way which would be a violation of their dignity is an indication of your own privilege, and what you’re prepared to do to maintain your privilege regardless of how anyone else feels about themselves. Your argument has nothing to do with women’s welfare, it’s entirely centred on yourself, your own feelings and your own personal beliefs. Rather than gently suggesting anyone else check their privilege, it’s incumbent upon you to check your own privilege first before you attempt to check anyone else’s. I do appreciate that it was only a suggestion, but it’s not necessary.

Nope, I’m not. I’m telling you what I do and don’t believe, seeing as we’re both participating in a conversation.

I don’t believe you don’t know what I mean when I refer to women, and I’ve said already that I don’t need to define the word to know what a woman is. The only occasion when the definition could be of any importance is when someone tries to impose their own personal beliefs on anyone else. I haven’t tried to do that either, you’re free to believe whatever you want.

If being a woman is all about chromosomes, why would "experience and thinking patterns" come into it? Are you respecting science yourself here?

What's the criteria for getting a gender recognition certificate?

Well of course but those standards you don't know if HC is a woman. By your definition you would need a chromosome test. Have you access to the results of this test?

But if you knew her chromosomes and you knew how she identifies (I think we can make a pretty good guess at both) then you'd know right?

Also I wasn't actually saying you would know whether she was a woman or not. I meant you would know what OEJ means. The definition would tell you who he considers to be a woman and you would understand it. They are two separate issues.