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Working From Home Megathread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Sammy96


    Great to see the two above posters are thinking the exact same as me.

    We are in the process of relocating out of Dublin. This has come about for a variety of reasons but accelerated now with remote working.

    All that you have said is a no brainer but there is very little proactive movement on any of these issues by the Government. But they will be quick to tell you that these issues will be what they want resolved but still basically do nothing.

    I attended a call last week on the future of the civil service and DEPR touched on the rural hubs/development initiative and said it would be a couple of years off. So that tells you all you need to know on this.

    There is very little movement on any of this and all the positives gained and talked about in the last two years and giving people a chance to work and live in rural Ireland and not in Dublin have suddenly disappeared.

    I am also being active emailed TDs and unions but nothing really positive came back.

    Interestingly the UK have been very active on this and have already moved civil servants out of London to hubs. Same on Northern Ireland, where a large number of remote civil service hubs have been set up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    On your point about hubs, that was "around 2 years off" nearly 4 years ago at this stage when it was being planned by DPER. So it appears no real progress has being made on it which is a pity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 babu fric




  • Registered Users Posts: 2 babu fric


    working from home will get more cars off the road but will all so be abused as i know a few that do. also you may suffer from babin fever working and liveing in the same place spells trouble i think the ruling is you must take breaks away from the work place not easy to do if you work from home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Working in the office was abused as well, and we all know that from experience... the same people having a conversation about the weekend's football, then you'd see them 20 minutes later at someone else's desk in another room having exactly the conversation. There is no "ruling" that you need to take a break away from the workplace; it's good practice, though, definitely. So I get up from my home-office desk and go over to the kitchen counter, or into the living room, if I'm not going out. Same as when I'm in the office I'll head out to get something to eat before bringing it back to my desk and watching Netflix; or, in the before times, going to the canteen to chat with colleagues over a sandwich.



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  • Posts: 0 Gwen Tall Dart


    These minimum standards, of course, apply to both working from home or in an office. No employer can require you to exceed any of this.

    I remember when working in public service being required to take at least one two-week consecutive annual leave period per year, it was put to us that it was in EU recommendations to enable staff to be out of the usual work environment for that period in order to “mentally detach” properly from work. As I was looking after my elderly mother I actually found this inconvenient and unhelpful in my particular situation, but HR were having NK e of my protestations to be able to break it up. A few colleagues in similar situation to me found similar.

    With WFH I would imagine in my case that my late mother would have been particularly careful not to disturb my work, but I bet there are folks out there who may have a parent or two who would be tempted to take advantage of their offspring being present “would you ever go around to the shop and get milk?” “could you sort X out for me here?” “any chance of a cup of tea?” And it would be very hard to say no!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    A real pet hate of mine is the images used by the media on any WFH articles. They typically depict someone lying on a bed smiling at a laptop. It does nothing to help the case for people who have invested in a proper set-up and give 100% while on the job. Here's a sample from the first few articles on BBC -






  • Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yes, the idea that most of us have properly designed home offices is really not the image they want to precent, they prefer to show office staff in "unprofessional" positions.

    No one works like that for any length of time, for starters it would be an ergonomic nightmare. It's just trying to present the image that WFH is a doss compared to office working, I can assume it is basically due to the people who sponsor these types of article have a vested interest in getting people working from offices.

    Everyone from commercial landlords to "business fashion" retailers have supported office based working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Is this not the reality for those who don’t have the space for a desk?



  • Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Of course it is, but many do have the ability to WFH from a properly designed office space.

    If you're home environment is unsuitable for work, then your empolyer would be expected to provide suitable working accommodation, ideally close to where you live.

    Those who can work efficiently from home should be allowed to,

    It's not rocket science!

    Plus it would be very beneficial all round with reduced congestion, pollution and cost from unnecessary commuting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    With workers scattered around the country, I think it would unrealistic to expect employers to provide “working accommodation” for those whose home is unsuitable to wfh. I am not sure that many employers will consider the benefits you list in your last paragraph as important elements to be taken into account when deciding on wfh.

    You are right, it isn’t rocket science, but neither is it as simple as you make it out to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    Yeah as someone with a spinal disorder a standing desk was one of the first investments I made for long term WFH

    As an aside managing said disorder is much easier from home, thankfully my job is remote. I'm not looking forward to a future where I have to return to the office, and suffer and be less productive just in the name of presenteeism



  • Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As someone who is promoting the office based worker, requiring the employer to provide office based accommodation is exactly what you' advocating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I am not promoting anything, like the newspaper articles you are seeing a hidden agenda that doesn’t exist.

    Your earlier post indicated that employers should provide an office close to where you live if homes are unsuitable for wfh, given what you said about it not being rocket science, the glaringly simple issue with that would be as workers may be dotted around the country, it would be completely unrealistic to expect employers to open multiple offices when they already have one open for the employees to return to.

    That isn’t promoting wfh, it is just pointing out an obvious shortcoming in what you believe employers should do. As I have posted here many times, this is an opportunity for both employers and employees and that eventually those that want wfh will get it if they are willing to move jobs, and employers will fill the vacancies with people who live close or who have no issue with office based working.



  • Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I was referring to remote office hubs, the business rents a desk at such a location for the staff, in many cases it could work out cheaper than the rent on a city centre office.



  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭Nordner


    Thanks to you and all the other like minded posters! However, I would not even bother clarifying anything for Dav010. He is obviously a troll who does not know the first thing about what he is talking about. If he has a vested interest in not allowing WFH or Working from Hubs remotely, he ought to declare it, otherwise, don't bother posting anymore on the thread.

    As for the rest of us, we need to keep up the pressure on TDs, Ministers and our Union Reps. Don't give up or let HR bully us. This is a fight we can win if we all work together. If Forsa or the other Unions aren't interested in taking this thing on, there is nothing to stop us joining together to form a pressure group of our own.

    Strike while the iron is hot lads or this opportunity will be lost!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Very well.

    I declare I have NO vested interest in promoting either wfh or return to office working.

    I also have no vested interest in supporting the views of people who think they have an entitlement to wfh, where none exists, nor supporting PSs who think they should be able to live in Donegal, or anywhere else. If you want wfh and your employer doesn’t offer it, look for employment with someone who does.

    That is not trolling, it is the reality of workplaces moving back to pre-pandemic modes of working. The opportunity is there for you to explore new jobs which will allow you to work where you want, strike while the iron is hot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    There may not be an entitlement (right now) to WFH, but most people have proven over the past two years that not only can they WFH, they can do so with the same or greater productivity than working from an office. That's the reality. No, it doesn't and can't work for everyone, but the clear benefits to the employer, the environment and the worker are all there to see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Absolutely agree, some employers will embrace that, others will not. But the bottom line is that until it is an entitlement, companies will continue to decide what works best for them.

    As I have said in numerous posts, wfh jobs will be there for those who want them, but it may involve moving to new companies which embrace wfh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭User142


    Small snowball started from what I can see from friends that companies are deciding to take the scrapping of the mask rules as their que to stand down their social distancing rules and getting the WFH contingent back to the workplace for a couple days a week.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭Young_gunner


    I just don't agree. Workers who willingly took on wfh when the pandemic struck and have worked professionally and diligently have earned the right to maintain this way of working.

    Covid has changed the landscape - I don't believe an employer can just wash that all away in the name of an office. Correct, there's no legal entitlement, but the world doesn't work in such a legalistic fashion.

    The remote working genie is out of the bottle, and it ain't going back in. As I have said before, in 10 years time we'll look back on office commutes the same way as we look back on dial-up internet now - did the job for a while, but replaced with something better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I agree with you, but we are already seeing migration back to office, either in a hybrid or full time capacity. Workers didn’t “willingly take on wfh”, emergency Covid policies introduced by the Government directed that all non essential staff were to wfh where possible.

    Again, I say this for the umpteenth time, wfh will be embraced by some, not all employers and those that want it should change jobs if it is not offered. I am certain that vacancies will be filled, so there will be inertia to wfh, particularly from companies with owned/leased offices which they can’t easily leave. A few weeks ago the Government issued a list of grounds on which wfh can be denied which is so expansive, that it makes the right to ask nothing more than a meaningless exercise. Will wfh ever be an entitlement? You would have to consider what the State’s biggest employer would think of such a proposal, and given the speed with which their employees are being brought back to the offices, you wouldn’t be optimistic.

    Lastly, Covid has only changed the landscape for some, there are those that want to go back to offices, live close to offices, want to live in cities, so support for/understanding of those who want to wfh is not universal, again, particularly because there are jobs out there which offer it to those who want it.

    I am not pro or anti one side or the other, there will be upheaval in offices/the market as a result of Covid, but eventually an equilibrium will be reached where most will likely get what they want depending on supply and demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I think you're right. We're in a transition period now. The progressive employers out there will look at the last two years and see what lessons can be learned, and most of the tech companies especially will go "we can hire better staff and (crucially!) retain them; and save a fortune on office rental and leases if we have a robust WFH policy". The latter will matter less for employers that already own their own premises, obviously.

    The public service isn't all rushing back to the office, though. Plenty of bodies are saying continue on as you have been doing (i.e. WFH), including Revenue and some line departments. Others are a mixture of 'come back in one day a week' to 'come back in 2 to 4 days a week', while everyone waits on what's agreed between DPER and the unions.

    And of course there are agendas at play. All those offices being built and rented out at huge rents by WeWork, Regus and the like need tenants, and there will absolutely have been lobbying going on as a result. Probably one of the reasons why the "right to ask for WFH" legislation is such a joke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,858 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    If your employer has an office why should be expected to give you a place to work close to your home that just seems like an extra expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,895 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Exactly.

    Smart employers will continue to hire the cheapest person who is good-enough for the job. Ones who don't need a 2nd set of equipment at home or WFH allowances or remote-management are cheaper, unless your office footprint can be reduced (most find this takes a lot time due to leases ru ning for years).



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,027 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    you cant accuse someone for being a troll just because they have a different view point to you.

    and as for your call to arms, best of luck comrade.



  • Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    At this stage, almost all employeees have already been provided with a second set of IT, or the staff have cleared their desks and brought it home. As for office space, yes many companies have expensive leases that have years to run, but not all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,450 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    There have been a lot of posters on boards saying they are using there own laptops at the kitchen table. Not sure if you can say most have been given IT and desks yet.

    If employers embrace wfh, there will be an obligation to provide a workstation for that home, do a H&S assessment and provide insurance. Plus of course there will be pressure to pay for broadband and electricity. There will be some whose homes will not be suitable for wfh home, and those who live close enough to the office/want to go there such that an office will have to be maintained. Employers are not going to set up small offices dotted around the country nor will paying for you to attend a different office when the main one is available appeal to many.

    This has been covered many, many times on this thread. Employers are going to do what they believe is in their best interest, employees will to the same. Some times those interests will align, some times they won’t. I’m not sure how the restart to office work is being viewed, are people more surprised that so many employers are making workers go back to the office, or that so many are allowing full wfh?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Plus of course there will be pressure to pay for broadband and electricity.

    No there won't. There's already a daily WFH allowance available from Revenue, and frankly it's going to be a case of employee going "I'm WFH and I have to heat the house all day now" and the employer going "Well, you can do that - don't forget to claim your WFH allowance from Revenue - or you can come in to the office, and pay for the public transport or petrol and parking. Your choice."

    There will be a need for a H&S assessment and that's probably no bad thing.

    Employers are not going to set up small offices dotted around the country nor will paying for you to attend a different office when the main one is available appeal to many.

    Most won't, no. The likes of the public/civil service really should be offering regional office hubs, though. It fits in with many other policies - reducing traffic, increasing rural populations, etc. Private sector companies who are at or near capacity might well see the benefit in renting a few desks in a hub in Galway or Limerick rather than leasing a new office building in Dublin, too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭Nordner


    Yep, I can. Especially when it is apparent that the poster does not have a clue what they are talking about.

    Humphries is promoting a doubling in the number of Digital Hubs from 200 currently to 400 by 2025 in an effort to help Revitalise Rural Ireland.

    If Public money is being pumped into this initiative then it logically follows that Public Servants, where suitable, should be encouraged to avail of it.

    The Public Sector should lead the way in this and set the standards which private companies can then emulate if they wish.



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