Why is the Irish Labour party such a failure ?

Hard to disagree. But I think the seeds were sown how Labour was always the 'little brother at best' in Irish politics went back further still.

When Labour stood aside in 1918 for a Sinn Fein v The Irish Parliamentary Party showdown.

Then to make matters worse Labour did not contest the 1921 elections.

When Labour reached their strongest point they went more central and got rid of the leftist factions in the 1990's. Ever since then I think Labour has had no identity. And has been usurped not only by SF but by PUP and leftist independents.

Basically now no ordinary person on the street can definitively say what Labour stands for. I predict the Social Democrats will end up over taking Labour as well and that will be the final insult.

A charismatic leader of the Labour party is one hope. But Alan Kelly is so bland and non descript it sums up Labour's problems!

Problem with Labour is they shifted too right towards the centre.. to the point that not a lot distinguishes them fro FF/FG… because of that vacuum they have caused we have the resurgence of Sinn Fein.

there has been and is a dearth of talent in labour….from the top down… Gilmore, Burton and Howlin as leaders.. no, sorry. As much charisma and relatability and help to real working people as a paper statue in a hurricane …. Alan Kelly seems to do nothing but sow division and again no charisma, talks to please, every interview or speech is a call for votes as opposed to seducing people by outlining a fair set of proposals that can be the pillars of re establishing this country as a fair, rewarding and prosperous country for its citizens but no…. Citizens and our wellbeing are not his priority … he is pushing for and end to mask wearing.

It might have won them the election but it would have decimated their youth vote. Corbyn sat on the fence because Labour members/voters were remain-leaning but most Labour constituencies voted leave.

I'm not sure why you are mixing in elections? Unless your missus is running for election.

Lets suppose your missus is trying to effect some change. Lets suppose she works with education of early school leavers (replace that with whatever you want). Suppose she goes for a job managing the local centre because she wants to make some things better for the people. She comes second in the interview process. Then she later hears that the person who got the job, just applied because it was a good salary and pension. That person was trying to get a promotion in the Department of Finance but couldn't cut the grade.

But they heard about the managers job and realised it would be a handy number if you didn't actually want to bother your hole improving anything - just turn up and get the paycheque. They did well at their interview by bamboozling the interviewers with buzz words and by telling them how the centre was currently getting shafted by the government. Once they get their feet under the table, they spend their day on facebook and youtube. You missus knows that the person doesn't actually give a sh1te about the role or the kids, even though they make the odd ruckus in public to make sure they have board support. Would your missus say "fair play to them" or would she think that the person was wrong to parachute themselves in by pretending they were actually interested in the work and the people? The person just pretended to give a crap to get a handy number.

A bunch of pension tourists who were only interested in ministerial salaries and pensions. Yet another political party ruined by these chancers. If they had stayed out of government in 2011, SF would never have gained the electoral traction that it did and become the official opposition while the wannabe FGers in FF signed the Collaboration and Surrender agreement in 2016 which effectively ended FF as a party. The electorate now seems to consider FF and FG to be the same party and opinion polls have suggested that second choice votes are staying within FF/FG. Labour has absolutely failed to exploit the incompetence of FFG and there really isnt a place for yet another Right of centre YATSE party in Irish politics.

Regards...jmcc

I am rolling around laughing at this thread. It will be interesting to see the reality of having to wield power and how that effects SF and it's supporters.

At present I am still not buying that SF will be in power after the next election. FF, FG and the Green party are running at 50% in the polls at present. SF at 35%, unless this radically changed SF will not enter power.

SF will cannibalise the other parties of the left ( except Labour who do not get SF preferences to get elected) and take virtually all there seats. They will also take some seats from the independents.

S/PBP will not have 4 seats after the next election on 1% of the vote, the SD will not have 6 TD's on 2% of the vote. 35% of the vote will give SF about 60-70 seats max but by maximising the vote they will cannibalise the rest of the left parties.

The fact they willingly selected Alan Kelly as their leader sums them up....a shambles...won't be getting my vote. It's a shame because they have some decent people at least at councillor level.

I always said Brendan Howlin had a massive part to play in labours demise. The most knife cutting minister ever in power and FG just enjoyed the ride. Even near the end of his tenure when things were picking up he continued to cut and save. Socialism not.

Yes indeed . My view of Labour is coloured since the 1990s by their ministers in government .

Howlin an arrogant health minister who just cut , cut , cut during his time as Health Minister .

Dick Spring and all his 'aides ' and relations getting jobs licking envelopes and being paid large salaries in the rainbow government.

Ruairi Quinn ensuring most families were less able to afford to send their children to college by raising the registration fees.

Alan Kelly as an impotent blustering housing minister who thought that he could solve the housing crisis by reversing progressive decisions on apartment sizes which so far has only benefited property developers yet again.

Aodhán who according to his own mother was christened Aidan , and only changed his name when he was mid degree in a Dublin university . According to her on a TV interview , he came in the door one day with his college scarf on , saying " No ! Call me Aodhán! "

And Pat Rabbitte talking with such cynicism and sarcasm about the inevitability of broken election promises once a party gets into government...that was the final kick in the teeth for many a loyal labour supporter .

Certainly was the end for me anyway .

What do you think FG supported by Shane Ross and Healy Rae and other cowboys would have done with a free hand in Government? Anything that wasn’t nailed down would have been flogged in a fire sale, Coillte, ESB, every square inch of land. You think the prices we’re paying now are high?

They would also have torn down the social welfare system.

Hey don't knock FG...lol...ah no I hear ya but labour and socialism doesn't fit...they always went down hill after some good elections because they never lived up with the idealism.

He would not be my cup of tea but there is no denying his popularity.

No party suits really , just bits of different politicians and policies, all mixed up.

I suspect that is true of a lot of people in this country and why we find it hard to move away from the same old parties .

I like Roisin Shortfall, but the SDs will never have enough to really get anywhere .

Ivana Bacik has been a hero but now she is under the labour party whip ( who is that, btw?) who knows what direction she will take ?

I do like McEntee despite her FG roots .

This is becoming a list of women, bit biased? Can't think of many male politicians I particularly rate , if I am being truthful. Not off the top of my head . John Hume, Lemass , all dead and gone .

Notwithstanding their appalling time, last time they were in government, for which most grass root supporters will NEVER Ever forgive them for the decisions they made, it would seem to me the Alan Kelly starts every contribution in the Dail, praising a various minister or policy and then proceeds to lambast same. Aodhán Ó Ríordáin is just all over the place and both in essence have been the best spokespeople this current awful government could possibly hope for.

Brendan Howlin, god bless him is still living in the past.

I'd give Jed Nash and Duncan Smith some credit trying to keep this S**T show on the road, both have made some decent contributions. Sean Sherlock, a mystery, can't recall hearing as much of a whisper from him lately, Ivana Bacik reminds me of Marmite (Love or Hate) but regardless of her undoubted abilities, a little late coming to the party.

In essence, I for one not at all sure what it is this party stands for, utterly incoherent in every respect, but the primary reason for their failure is an inability to connect with the electorate along with some pretty dreadful performances over the past few years.

Throughout the history of the state Labour have been a failure, not just recently as many are alluding to.

I think the reason is that back at the time of the run up to the formation of the state what is now the republic had very little industry and thus never had a strong base for something like a labour movement.

All the heavy industry was in Belfast.

It had steel, shipbuilding etc.

Dublin only had small industries like rope making, distilling, brewing etc.

We were mainly a agricultural.

So they never had a base to build on in the first place.

I voted for Labour in that election and thought the coalition was the right call. Bit they should have pulled the plug when Gilmore stepped down or maybe even before when FG wouldn't let Quinn go after church land to pay off all the money owed from the child molestation payouts.

I don't think they had much room for maneuver once they entered that government; we were in a bailout programme and obliged to follow austerity measures. Their real misstep was making a load of promises before the 2011 election they must have known they would be unable to honour.

IMO those broken promises and their failure to do a proper mea culpa for them along these lines

are responsible for Labour's failure to regain the trust of left-leaning voters. And as others have pointed out those voters have plenty of other options.

Why should someone stick only to their local area? She probably sees herself as doing even more good by shaping the parties national policy.

Look, it's easy to see why you might prefer someone you don't like stay in a harmless area whee they can never realistically get elected.

Do you apply the same standard to other politicians? What's MM doing above in Dublin, running the whole government? Shut he's from Cork. Maybe everyone should stay in their constituency and never aspire for more. Maybe they shouldn't try to represent a whole constituency. Maybe they should stick to local councils. Or maybe whole councils are too big, maybe they should just represent their townsland or maybe just their street.

This is a purity test only applied to left wing candidates (with the built in assumption thst theyre playing the voters. MM and LV can run the national government and that's fine, but a left wing candidate moves from a constituency they can't realistically win so they can lead their party and that's seen as wrong? Better to run a tiny, probably part-time SF office in Rathgar, than lead the national party?

Problem for labour was they over promised in 2011 to get into power. Most of there promises were never going to be possible to uphold.

As FG were getting within a whisker of an overall majority Labour made promises to middle Ireland ( on college fees and taxation) that it could never uphold.

When FG were not close to an overall majority, Labour should have toned down there promises and left FG gain that overall majority. They would have been the main opposition and FF would have not recovered within one cycle.

Pulling the plug half way through was never an option. It's funny by Labour really protected the unemployed and those depending on SW during this period but these people never thank you as SF will find out.

Middle Ireland never forgave them because of the broken promises